Rockers. Wow.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:04 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

CATCRD wrote:

Do you have any kind of tune or EGR delete on your CRD?

I got it about 11,000 miles ago, and up until that point it was running dino 15W-40; bone stock otherwise. Since then I have started running 5W-40 synthetic. Will be getting GDE tune soon!
Also will be investigating secondary filtration, either the centrifuge or some sort of cartridge filter system to reduce soot load.

This is a question for the rest of the board following this thread... Isn't the Dino oil a problem? I get that the EGR would create the soot, but does dino oil struggle to clean out that soot?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:38 pm

I have never been any deeper in one of these than the timing belt. I have a question for those who have been into the valvetrain. Do you think the end stages of lifter failure could cause a valve to stick open? I'm wondering if lifter failure also explains some of the engines that ingest their own valves. I realize glowplug tips are the prime suspect, but some say they have lost valves in cylinders with intact plugs. That is creepy to me. I struggle to explain it.

user113 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:04 pm

My '05 has 72K miles, so I have a while before I do the timing belt, but this discussion really troubles me.

I am using the spin-on full-flow/bypass combination filters from MicroGreen and I have the GDE tune. (The UOA report notes that the insolubles after approximately 6K miles were down from 0.7% with a Napa Gold filter (5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck) to 0.2% with the MicroGreen filter (5W-40 Rotella t6), GDE tune in place during both intervals.) So the MicroGreen filters might be a simple solution to the bypass filtration, unfortunately my data uses different oils.

But from what I have read above, it seems that a complete inspection of the valve train might be in order when the timing belt is changed, too. Are there any reports of completely health rockers and bearings at 100K miles

, or should we really just consider them maintenance items at that mileage :evil:

?

Big Montana · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:15 pm

user113 wrote:

Are there any reports of completely health rockers and bearings at 100K miles

, or should we really just consider them maintenance items at that mileage :evil:

?

That's a good question. Has anyone had to take the top off for a different reason to discover that their rockers and such were fine? If so, what have you been running?

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:38 pm

user113 wrote:

My '05 has 72K miles, so I have a while before I do the timing belt, <snip>

I respectfully suggest that you rethink that. My 05 had 79,000 when I bought it, and after a few months it had 90,000 or so, and the OEM belt was cracked and ready to go. YMMV, but I would not let this belt run for more than 6 years regardless of mileage.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:40 pm

Goglio704 wrote:

I have never been any deeper in one of these than the timing belt. I have a question for those who have been into the valvetrain. Do you think the end stages of lifter failure could cause a valve to stick open? I'm wondering if lifter failure also explains some of the engines that ingest their own valves. I realize glowplug tips are the prime suspect, but some say they have lost valves in cylinders with intact plugs. That is creepy to me. I struggle to explain it.

I will have to give that some thought. I can see offhand how the rocker might disengage from the valve if it got worn enough, but that would cause the valve to fail closed..... Let me ponder that while I put mine back together, and if I come up with an answer I will let you know.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2012 10:44 pm

user113 wrote:

My '05 has 72K miles, so I have a while before I do the timing belt, but this discussion really troubles me.

I am using the spin-on full-flow/bypass combination filters from MicroGreen and I have the GDE tune. (The UOA report notes that the insolubles after approximately 6K miles were down from 0.7% with a Napa Gold filter (5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck) to 0.2% with the MicroGreen filter (5W-40 Rotella t6), GDE tune in place during both intervals.) So the MicroGreen filters might be a simple solution to the bypass filtration, unfortunately my data uses different oils.

But from what I have read above, it seems that a complete inspection of the valve train might be in order when the timing belt is changed, too. Are there any reports of completely health rockers and bearings at 100K miles

, or should we really just consider them maintenance items at that mileage :evil:

?

My guess, and that is all that it is at this point, is that the US regs have caused the manufacturer to both increase the soot load on the engine, and decrease the ability of the lube oil to manage those soot levels, resulting in increased wear on the motor not seen elsewhere.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:03 pm

While we are on the topic of rocker replacement, the FSM is notably vague about how one preps new lifters for installation. All my other diesels use mechanical lifters.

How does one prep new dry lifters?

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:45 pm

There isn't a whole lot you can do with them, unless you happen to have a pressurization well that they can be clamped in, and oil pumped into those tiny holes in the side.

I'm a bit dubious about simply submerging them in oil and waiting, I don't know if the oil would drain into them and displace the small amount of air all the way through.

That said... I submerged all new the lifters (standing upright) in clean oil before I put them in mine... It didn't make any (new) bad noises when I tried idling after that.

I had compressed (and drained) all the old lifters at one point, and they pumped up again almost instantly when I had reassembled it before the new ones had arrived.

Bottom line opinion: I'd just drop them in the holes as-is, unless you think they are particularly dry, then try the submerging game. Their ultimate purpose is to soak up the valve lash with the oil pressure, so I don't think they "move" as such during normal operation, not like a rod bearing would. Putting in a dry bearing is a whole different ball of wax from trying these as-is.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:42 pm

I suppose if I were really persnickety, I would compress the lifters, squeeze the old mungy oil out, and allow them to expand when submerged in new oil, thus sucking in all new lube.

I might just try that; I have a small vice that would be perfect for that.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:34 am

LMWatBullRun wrote:

While we are on the topic of rocker replacement, the FSM is notably vague about how one preps new lifters for installation. All my other diesels use mechanical lifters.

How does one prep new dry lifters?

I would use a generous coat of assembly lube :2cents:

user113 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:10 pm

When I was a kid, we used to just use a can of STP oil treatment as assembly lube.

I am curious, after having reviewed the procedure, why does one need to keep the lifters in an upright position once removed? Are they going to fall irreconcilably apart?

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:31 pm

The idea is to probably prevent them from possibly draining. Considering that I had to use a vise to compress the lifters to get the oil out... I wouldn't be too concerned.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:24 am

user113 wrote:

When I was a kid, we used to just use a can of STP oil treatment as assembly lube.

I am curious, after having reviewed the procedure, why does one need to keep the lifters in an upright position once removed? Are they going to fall irreconcilably apart?

I think I will do just what you suggest, as the STP oil treatment appears to be ZDDP additive with carrier oils. And as Geordi states, the idea is to keep the oil in the lifters. I put my old ones in egg cartons, labeled with location, so that when I get the time to analyze the wear I can see if any pattern emerges. In hindsight, I wish now I had labeled each head bolt when I took it out.

jamesdart · **Joined:** Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:41 pm **Posts:** 53

with the bad rockers, do you wind up blowing smoke out the exhuast?

kjjet · **Posted:** Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:07 pm

jamesdart wrote:

with the bad rockers, do you wind up blowing smoke out the exhuast?

Bad rockers will not cause blowing smoke, But as the rockers get worn the valves will not be opening as much. This keeps the engine from burning all the fuel effectivly. Which will give you some extra smoke. You may not be even see the differance.

So to answer your question, Yes but very little.

Now if you break a rocker? Yes... lots of smoke and very ruff running.

mngoat01 · **Joined:** Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:25 am **Posts:** 67

So.....if a person plans on keeping the CRD for awhile past 100,000 miles should changing out the rockers at the time of a timing belt change be done. Sounds like around $400 for a set of 16. How much extra work is it if you do it at the time of a timing belt????? I'm assuming taking off the intake to just take a look isn't the thing to do? If you going to pull it off then do the rockers???? Thanks for any feedback....would like to keep the jeep for another 100,000 miles.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:54 pm

mngoat01 wrote:

So.....if a person plans on keeping the CRD for awhile past 100,000 miles should changing out the rockers at the time of a timing belt change be done. Sounds like around $400 for a set of 16. How much extra work is it if you do it at the time of a timing belt????? I'm assuming taking off the intake to just take a look isn't the thing to do? If you going to pull it off then do the rockers???? Thanks for any feedback....would like to keep the jeep for another 100,000 miles.

I checked mine when I did the belt/WP, and you have to remove the valve cover/camshaft holder/intake manifold to get at them. To do this you have to remove the injectors, which probably isn't a bad thing either, and the EGR valve and elbow. (Note, take these off one bit at a time. Much easier; ditto replacement)
The rocker replacement is easy once you have all the other stuff out of the way.
If yours are like mine, some will be good and others will be worn.

Srytrucker · **Posted:** Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:25 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

user113 wrote:

My '05 has 72K miles, so I have a while before I do the timing belt, but this discussion really troubles me.

I am using the spin-on full-flow/bypass combination filters from MicroGreen and I have the GDE tune. (The UOA report notes that the insolubles after approximately 6K miles were down from 0.7% with a Napa Gold filter (5W-40 Turbo Diesel Truck) to 0.2% with the MicroGreen filter (5W-40 Rotella t6), GDE tune in place during both intervals.) So the MicroGreen filters might be a simple solution to the bypass filtration, unfortunately my data uses different oils.

But from what I have read above, it seems that a complete inspection of the valve train might be in order when the timing belt is changed, too. Are there any reports of completely health rockers and bearings at 100K miles

, or should we really just consider them maintenance items at that mileage :evil:

?

My guess, and that is all that it is at this point, is that the US regs have caused the manufacturer to both increase the soot load on the engine, and decrease the ability of the lube oil to manage those soot levels, resulting in increased wear on the motor not seen elsewhere.

X2
The Good workable solution besides replacing the rockers/lifters would be to get on GDE and install a good by pass filtration system one of our members had an Amsoil unit installed with good results.

kjjet · **Posted:** Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:41 pm

I agree....With a GDE tune the EGR is not used. If you change the Rockers or had a GDE tune from the time the engine was new they should be OK.

I had over 90k on my engine prior to the GDE tune. Rocker Failure at 96k. Changed all + new cam.

Rockers. Wow.

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