So in anybodies guestimation what is the life expectancy of

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:08 am

So in anybodies guestimation what is the life expectancy of these Jeep Liberty CRD engines?

Does anybody run a bypass oil filter?

I run bypass oil filters on all of my 6.5's.

Does anybody or everybody run fuel additive? I've been running 11% soy since I could get it. The new diesel does not seem to play as nice with the soy as the old diesel did. Several of my 18 wheeler friends have mentioned the same. I also run Amsoil Cetane boost, Amsoil or Schaefer's Diesel additive a small amount of ashless 2 stroke oil - about 4 oz. per tank.

And on occasion some Sea Foam or Power service product - Coupled with the lubricity additives I've never worried about the bad effects of these products

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:05 am

I expect these VM 2.8L engines to last a really long time, until they break :wink:

No special oiling systems for me. Just synthetic 5w40 and a good filter.

I use a blend of PowerService and TCw3 as my fuel additive. It's all I can find in my area.

Glend · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:27 am

A long time - if you bought it new and stuck a Provent on it right away, and put it on a GDE tune as soon as they became available, serviced it obsessively, changed the timing belt on the export model interval of 100,000kms (60,000 miles), kept your egt low, operated it within the torque band (no over-reving), and used the right oil. Unfortunately, if you bought it used then you won't know what was done to it before you got it and that is where alot of people get into trouble.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:57 am

What is availability and cost of a good quality replacement engine?

Where is a good place to source an engine?

How many miles do you consider a good long time?

CRDsyeruncle · **Joined:** Fri May 10, 2013 10:03 pm **Posts:** 71

I use the Amsoil Cetane booster.

Hexus · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:23 pm

jrsavoie wrote:

What is availability and cost of a good quality replacement engine?

Where is a good place to source an engine?

How many miles do you consider a good long time?

Availability is sketchy, cost is $8500 new and I've seen $3500-$5500 rebuilt prices. You're better off buying another Jeep.

There are no good places to source an engine, unless you live in Europe.

I"m not sure, I rebuilt the whole top end in mine at 114K following the manufacturer's specifications and having never used it for towing.

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:33 pm

It probably will last a long time if the mentioned mods are done.

The real concern, as it seems we are seeing, would be rocker wear. Luckily this isn't the end of the world (though it is pricey).

flash7210 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:40 pm

jrsavoie wrote:

How many miles do you consider a good long time?

How many miles do YOU consider a good long time?

The VM 2.8L has only been in the U.S. since 2005.
The highest reported mileage I've seen is 200,000.

So, I'd say if you take good care of the engine, it should be good for 200,000 miles.
Maybe even more?

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:36 pm

flash7210 wrote:

[quote="jrsavoie"

So, I'd say if you take good care of the engine, it should be good for 200,000 miles.
Maybe even more?

That's a bit of a disappointment. At 140,000 miles, if I repair the Jeep it will only be good for another 60,000 miles. We've, many times, put 40,000 miles on in 9 months. Hopefully those days are over

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:00 pm

I had my CRD from 30k to 134k miles. In that time, I did not have a single instance of more than 30k miles driven without a major repair bill. I was very careful about maintenance and always using the best fluids I possibly could get, changing them often. 80% of the driving I did was highway, and perhaps 1% of those miles were towing. I do not beat on my vehicles while they are towing, and not often otherwise. I don't like paying for fuel or broken parts.

In 100k miles, it destroyed two engines exactly the same way: bottom end failure, and a rod / piston leaving its assigned duty station.

I had a 2001 VW Jetta TDI that I drove like a go-kart when I was younger. In 150k miles, it didn't break anything major other than a fuel seal in the injection pump, that I was told was caused by the switch to ULSD - it was happening to everyone's TDI around that time.

I now have a 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon (same engine and automatic transmission) that had already gone 244k miles before I bought it... And I have upped that to 274k since October 7 when I bought it. I'm on track for 50k miles this year, and crossing 300k before the end of October.

Will any CRD be able to match that? I seriously doubt it. The engineering quality just isn't there on the VM engines. Then there is the question of what Chrysler changed on the engine when they put it into the Jeep in the USA, versus the international markets. Something is subtly different on the US Spec models, which causes these rocker and bearing failures. We really need to figure out what that is, and if it can be fixed.

I did like the vehicle, but I need a RELIABLE car to get me to the films and TV I work on. When they call, I have to be ready to GO, because it usually involves a good drive to a location somewhere. The Jeep just couldn't offer that.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:19 pm

I think that with the following mods one can expect 300,000 miles from a motor;
-soot reduction via any number of methods;
-bypass filtration/centrifugation for soot scavenging;
-EHM
-ARP studs to eliminate head warping problems leading to premature head/HG seal failure.
-proper warmup and cooldown procedures for the turbo

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:36 pm

geordi wrote:

I had my CRD from 30k to 134k miles. In that time, I did not have a single instance of more than 30k miles driven without a major repair bill. I was very careful about maintenance and always using the best fluids I possibly could get, changing them often. 80% of the driving I did was highway, and perhaps 1% of those miles were towing. I do not beat on my vehicles while they are towing, and not often otherwise. I don't like paying for fuel or broken parts.

In 100k miles, it destroyed two engines exactly the same way: bottom end failure, and a rod / piston leaving its assigned duty station.

I had a 2001 VW Jetta TDI that I drove like a go-kart when I was younger. In 150k miles, it didn't break anything major other than a fuel seal in the injection pump, that I was told was caused by the switch to ULSD - it was happening to everyone's TDI around that time.

I now have a 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon (same engine and automatic transmission) that had already gone 244k miles before I bought it... And I have upped that to 274k since October 7 when I bought it. I'm on track for 50k miles this year, and crossing 300k before the end of October.

Will any CRD be able to match that? I seriously doubt it. The engineering quality just isn't there on the VM engines. Then there is the question of what Chrysler changed on the engine when they put it into the Jeep in the USA, versus the international markets. Something is subtly different on the US Spec models, which causes these rocker and bearing failures. We really need to figure out what that is, and if it can be fixed.

I did like the vehicle, but I need a RELIABLE car to get me to the films and TV I work on. When they call, I have to be ready to GO, because it usually involves a good drive to a location somewhere. The Jeep just couldn't offer that.

Didn't you lose the engine from the turbo failing? Not saying that sucks any less///

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:40 pm

With all the electronics, Are there any engine swaps possible? Without an incredible amount of work? Like a 4BT or a VW?

I'm guessing something like this would not work?

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/engin ... m?id=66146

Pete 302-678-3797
New take-out, 0 mile VM Motori 2.8L CRD turbo diesel engine. This came out of a 2008 Dodge Grand caravan / Chrysler Grand Voyager, vans were upgraded to electric engines. Engine is complete with turbo and everything on the photo (no starter and no engine control unit / wiring harness.
Please check with Chrysler for interchangeability. Buyer to pay actual transport, we have fork lift on premises and we can load for free.

Please buy only if you know that will fit your vehicle, there is no return accepted. (engine is brand new)

Details of Engine for Sale
Listing ID 66146
Country United States
State (USA) DE
Make VM
Model Number 2.8L CRD turbo diesel eng
Serial Number
Cylinders 4
V or Inline Inline
Power Value
0 HP / 0 KW 0 @RPM
Application On-Highway
Last Used in ? 2008 Dodge Grand caravan / Chrysler
Condition New Engine
Weight (Kg)
Cooling Method Water
Dimensions
Price 3600
Lead Time In Stock

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:16 pm

These motors reportedly power the ubiquitous London Taxi and are claimed to go 500K miles between major rebuilds in the UK configuration. Tbey are also used extensively worldwide in marine applications.

DOC

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:31 pm

I'm guessing something like this would not work?

http://www.dieselenginetrader.com/engin ... m?id=66146

Pete 302-678-3797
New take-out, 0 mile VM Motori 2.8L CRD turbo diesel engine. This came out of a 2008 Dodge Grand caravan / Chrysler Grand Voyager, vans were upgraded to electric engines. Engine is complete with turbo and everything on the photo (no starter and no engine control unit / wiring harness.
Please check with Chrysler for interchangeability. Buyer to pay actual transport, we have fork lift on premises and we can load for free.

Please buy only if you know that will fit your vehicle, there is no return accepted. (engine is brand new)

Details of Engine for Sale
Listing ID 66146
Country United States
State (USA) DE
Make VM
Model Number 2.8L CRD turbo diesel eng
Serial Number
Cylinders 4
V or Inline Inline
Power Value
0 HP / 0 KW 0 @RPM
Application On-Highway
Last Used in ? 2008 Dodge Grand caravan / Chrysler
Condition New Engine
Weight (Kg)
Cooling Method Water
Dimensions
Price 3600
Lead Time In Stock

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:32 pm

Jeff, that block has been for sale for a while. From everything that smart people (GDE) have said, it will NOT match with anything on the Jeep CRD. Too bad too.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:51 pm

MedicPatriot wrote:

Didn't you lose the engine from the turbo failing? Not saying that sucks any less///

I had thought that was the initial cause for engine #1's demise at 60k miles. All the circumstances fit - super cold night, not plugged in, driveway ends in a 55mph road so there wasn't any time to warm up, turbo failed 2 miles from home... The bearing failure on the bottom end certainly could have been caused by the turbo, blowing a gallon of oil into the exhaust, OR the bearings starving for lube because of the same too-cold-oil that killed the turbo...

But when engine #2 failed at 133k miles (bought with 60k already on it) in the dead of summer and without ANY other attendent failures and not even a loss of oil pressure (monitored in the main gallery, NOT at the pump outlet)... You tell me.

Seriously. You tell me what went wrong, because I don't have a clue why cylinder #4 started knocking and sounding like bad combustion in #3 (with a code for bad combustion in #3). It started during a normal WOT run up a bridge for an italian tune up, NOT towing, warm engine, warm night, and I was able to limp it home (15 miles) while the noise slowly got louder. While working on it and tearing it down, the noise got quieter again during the couple times I started it up to check repairs (that didn't work obviously) and eventually it proved that #4 was the problem when it shoved the rod end (minus the rod cap!) through the side of the block where the EGR was supposed to be.

If you have any theories, I'm all ears. It won't help me out, but I'd be happy to try and discuss and discover WHY this engine ate itself with no obvious reasons - it might save someone else's engine.

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 1:32 pm

When I pull that motor, which I plan to do this year, I intend to do a detailed post mortem of it. In particular, I am going to look at the crankshaft and the block to determine the feasibility of repairing the block and reusing the crank. We shall see.

right now the game plan is to build a good motor from the core I have and swap that with the one in Geordi's buggy. The new build will have:
ARP head studs,
Possibly ARP rod bolts,
Blueprinted or larger oil pump,
New turbo with new oil feed path that does NOT drain the block if the turbo goes,
Supplemental filtration, either a centrifuge or a bypass system.
Possible supplemental oil pressurization.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:33 pm

LMWatBullRun wrote:

When I pull that motor, which I plan to do this year, I intend to do a detailed post mortem of it. In particular, I am going to look at the crankshaft and the block to determine the feasibility of repairing the block and reusing the crank. We shall see.

right now the game plan is to build a good motor from the core I have and swap that with the one in Geordi's buggy. The new build will have:
ARP head studs,
Possibly ARP rod bolts,
Blueprinted or larger oil pump,
New turbo with new oil feed path that does NOT drain the block if the turbo goes,
Supplemental filtration, either a centrifuge or a bypass system.
Possible supplemental oil pressurization.

Where would you feed the turbo &/or a bypass filter from? What would be your source of pressurized oil without robbing the block of anything?

Would it be possible or feasible to add a sump to the oil pan with a 12 volt pump to feed the turbo and bypass filter? Possibly running through the bypass to the turbo and back to the pan.

I've been happy with the FS2500 bypass filters and also the Amsoil bypass filter

LMWatBullRun · **Posted:** Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:04 pm

jrsavoie wrote:

LMWatBullRun wrote:

<snip>
New turbo with new oil feed path that does NOT drain the block if the turbo goes,
Supplemental filtration, either a centrifuge or a bypass system.
Possible supplemental oil pressurization.

Where would you feed the turbo &/or a bypass filter from? What would be your source of pressurized oil without robbing the block of anything?

Would it be possible or feasible to add a sump to the oil pan with a 12 volt pump to feed the turbo and bypass filter? Possibly running through the bypass to the turbo and back to the pan.

You answered your own question. That is exactly what I am thinking of doing except depending on how much through-put I get I might go to the block oil galleries for more pressure with at least some of the flow.
The nice thing is I could pre-oil the turbo and engine by energizing the pump prior to starting.
the other nice thing is that if I lose the turbo, I don't have to worry about losing the motor.

So in anybodies guestimation what is the life expectancy of

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