It did this a couple years ago and that time it turned out to be the little bar that goes inside the ignition switch was broken. so we started there this time. got it all apart and the little bar is still fine. tried turning the ignition switch manually and the Jeep cranked and fired! but then died a second or so later. tried again with the same result but the jeep died even quicker. a third attempt brought the same result and then nothing. no more cranking at all. So I figured it was a faulty ignition switch. replaced that today and still nothing. doesn't even try to crank. is there something else in the steering column I'm missing?

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Jeep on!
--Pete

1 Diesel Liberty and 2 and a half Comanches

I replied to this in the other forum, basically saying that if you have SKIS then make sure the chipped key is in the ignition while turning ignition switch with screwdriver and that the SKIS key light must go OFF.

What happens when you jumper pins 30 and 87 in the Starter relay socket?...make sure you are in neutral!

The engine should turn over with those two socket pins jumpered as it bypasses the relay and the interlocks (trans in Park or or transfer in N) if not... your battery is flat or you have dirty battery connections.

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

thanks! The key light functions normally so I guess that's not it. It started raining (again) so I'll jump the relay tomorrow.

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Jeep on!
--Pete

1 Diesel Liberty and 2 and a half Comanches

Make sure you have not run your battery flat by now. Check all fuses in the cabin and under the hood.

Also check the battery connections are clean and tight, the negative lead going to the chassis is clean and tight and the strap between the engine and chassis is clean and tight on both ends.

If the engine does turn over when jumpering the pins 30 and 87 in the Starter Relay socket the you may have problem with the starter relay or the transfer/transmission interlocks not sensing that the transmission/transfer is in N/Park.

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

I swapped the starter relay with the wiper relay and she started right up! but then I swapped them back and she started right up. so we have a worst case scenario... it seems to have fixed itself. now... do I trust it enough to drive 750 miles back to michigan? we'll see. in the meantime we'll do some test miles and drive it into town to get the AC topped off.

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Jeep on!
--Pete

1 Diesel Liberty and 2 and a half Comanches

it's doing it again. fortunately I am able to start it by bypassing the starter relay so I will be able to get it back to the driveway.

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Jeep on!
--Pete

1 Diesel Liberty and 2 and a half Comanches

what would prevent the key from starting the engine, but still allow the key to *run* the engine if I bypass the staryer relay?

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Jeep on!
--Pete

1 Diesel Liberty and 2 and a half Comanches

See viewtopic.php?f=5&t=61233&p=678574&hilit=+brother#p678574 for thoughts.

I'm guessing that having a chipped key in the ignition in the "on" position is enough to tell the security system the vehicle can cranked up. Jumping the relay is essentially applying start voltage directly to the starter in which case the vehicle will run until the key is turned off much like jumping the starter solenoid on an older vehicle. IIRC the way the system works is turn key on which disables the security system and turns a rod (that plastic thing that runs under the steering column and often breaks - FYI some have experienced intermittent no start with a cracked plastic thing); that rod turns the ignition switch on (thing bolted to left side of steering column); which in turn tells the ECU it's ok to supply power to the starter which trips the relay. My guess is you have a) a cracked plastic rod; or b) a bad ignition switch; or c) a sticky park/neutral interlock cable; or d) an intermittant internal short between battery cells such that the ECU is not "happy" enough with the voltage to trip the relay you are bypassing.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

I could not have answered any better than papindigo has just done now...nothing I can add to that

I think I need to hire papa as my Private Secretary

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

Hi new member with very similar issue, other than jeep will crank when relay is jumped, but engine will not fire.
I believe that there is an internal circuitry issue with the ECM as glow plug dash lights do not show, fuel pump does not prime and obviously engine does not crank when key is turned.
I am about to send ECM away for testing and rebuild if necessary, but ECM unit is receiving voltage from ignition and wiring grounds are all 0.1/0.2 ohms.
Any extra info/thoughts would be appreciated.
2006 CRD 6 speed Manual 49000 miles, vehicle has never missed a beat until now?
I have stripped ignition switch, by-passed clutch interlock just to eliminate physically, but as said I was receiving power to connectors on ECM before hand.

Try jumping pins 30 and 87 in the starter real socket again, switch on ignition using the key as usual(try another key as well) and now try jumper pins 30 and 87 in the ASD relay socket as well and see if it now fires....quickly remove the jumper in the starter relay socket!

I doubt it is your ECM...probably the actuator pin is broken or ignition switch is faulty or you have blown fuses...ignition switch works well enough to supply some voltage to some areas but not well enough to energize the starter solenoid...or you have a SKIM problem...this is obviously a manual as you are by-passing the clutch interlock...if you try to start in 4 wheel drive LO range the clutch interlock is also overidden!

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

Thanks for the reply Billwill, I'm sorry I hadn't seen it till now. I have not had the time to work on Jeep and it has been and still is sitting on drive! I wish I had seen your reply before sending the ECM for testing? as I was told that the unit was faulty and needed repairing.
Test report says
'Unit tested faulty with a complete non-start. This is a main processing failure, which is a common problem with this system type. It is not believed to be caused by any external fault, but the result of a natural component failure.'

I received repaired unit back this morning re-fitted and still cannot start the vehicle!!!! Losing the will to live, I will contact company again Monday morning to see what's their story?

I will in meantime do as you suggested and report back. I have trundled through I believe all (but obviously not), manual workshop diagnostic tests, but without a scan tool I cannot read or reset any DTC's. Originally the dealer said they could not communicate with the vehicle at all? They said it needed a new TIPM, would take 2/3 weeks to come from Italy and would cost around £2000+!! not sure if that included UK VAT as I had stopped listening by then. I don't think I'm mistaken in saying that this 06 2.8CRD Manual does not have a TIPM (Totally Integrated Power Module), so why would I trust anything this dealership says. Jeep dealerships in the UK are rare and competent, trustworthy ones are like gold.
Sorry for the rant.

Many thanks for your time

Simank

Sorry forgot to add, I've already checked ignition switch and barrel issues and they are fine, stripped, checked plastic rod and turned switch manually with key in ignition, also tested outputs from switch itself with key in different positions.
I was getting power to PIN 22 on ECM when ignition key was turned and clutch depressed, but relay signal not completing to ground through ECM I believed. Will have to re-check now ECM has been repaired?
Now thinking SKIM issue but really not sure.

Just an update, with great thanks to Billwill, I tried jumping both relays and bingo Jeep sprang to life.
Just leaving ASD relay linked and using key with clutch depressed, the Jeep will now start.
I will tomorrow try to trace which circuit has failed, but I thought I had already covered and ticked those checks off? When I've had time, I've been systematically trying to check all relevant circuits for a while now using the 2006 workshop manual offline, but there are a few typo's in the wiring diagrams which you need to be careful of! I managed to check the wiring between ASD 85 and the ECM plug C2 at pin 45( not 5 as in workshop wiring diagram!!!) and circuit has continuity, but I didn't actually note resistance. I will check again tomorrow as too dark to continue. Hopefully getting somewhere.
I can't leave ASD relay jumped as it seems to give power to components, ECM I think, when key isn't even in ignition.

Do you have the SKIS anti theft system installed ie. a chipped key which has to be in the ignition slot to get the vehicle to run?

If so do you get any "key" symbol or small red light flashing at you or staying on permanent when turning on ignition?

Edit to add: I just saw now that I did ask you this question previously.....this post should actually be in the CRD "Love the Torque" section so that CRD owners can chip in.

Be aware that 2006 CRDs (the USA models at any rate) are known to have a problem with the wire harness being pinched to ground in the area where the fuel filter bracket bolts onto the firewall....so maybe pull this bracket off and have a good look for frayed wires in that area!

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

Hi, latest news Jeep is running
Firstly I need to correct previous post regarding ECM PIN nos. The correct PIN No. for ASD Relay control is 85 @ power distribution centre (PDC) to PIN 44 @ ECM C2 via connector plug C105. The fused ASD relay output is 87 @ PDC to PIN 5 @ ECM C2.
On the wiring diagram I followed, PINs 44 and 5 were printed incorrectly, I only found them by opening the ECM connector plug and viewing the wire colours!
When then testing these circuits with meter in correct positions the wiring tested good?
So, as far as I could test with meter, all circuits seemed to test for continuity and correct voltages via workshop diagnostic testing procedures, once again pointing to the repaired ECM?
I also found that the clutch interlock switch, on this diesel model at least, only has one circuit connected at the ECM C2 @ PIN 17 and just connects to ground when clutch is depressed, the upstop side of switch is not connected at ECM C1 PIN 79. The connector in engine bay to clutch interlock switch is such that the upstop switch signal is connected to ground in the plug from factory, this again is very confusing, to me at least, when following workshop wiring diagrams.
I then, once again, started to re-test relevant circuits and re-followed workshop diagnostics, with particular attention on ASD circuit. All tested good so I replaced the same relay and tried starting vehicle, bingo she energised all circuits in key position 2, cranked over and fired on turn of key? I wasn't expecting that.
So I've now tried vehicle on and off numerous times, taken it for 10 mile run , left it for an hour and tried again and all is still good for now? There is a lasting issue though, the MIL engine light is constantly showing on dash?

Billwill I did strip, check and re-inforce protection of wiring harness at fuel filter bracket and all wires seemed to be ok, also other areas where the harness seems vulnerable are front LHS between battery and ECM unit and RHS at back of air filter housing, easy to pinch wires in air filter housing!
Will keep posting with updates.

Cheers
simank

So basically after putting the ASD relay back in its socket everything is back to normal and working well?

It does happen that the female pins in the relay socket get corroded or "expand" a bit so that they do not make good contact...you may need to spray some contact cleaner into the pins and maybe carefully squueze the female pins slightly together to make a good contact. Likewise clean the male pins on the relay!

Keep some jumper wire with you in the Jeep in case you get stranded somewhere.

The MIL light may dissapear after doing a few start/stop runs....do you know what the code goes with this MIL?

And yes I have found the circuit diagrams to have lots of errors on them...you have to tread carefully....if your clutch over-ride switch gives problems you should be able to start it without the clutch depressed if you are in 4X4 LO selection according to my User's Manual....so you can start in gear without depressing clutch if you are off-roading and have stalled while facing down a steep slippery slope!

The leads in the harness can get broken/pinched in many areas...in my 2002 RHD CRD the harness basically runs around the complete engine bay like the Beltway in Washington DC!..a lead from the relay box 18 inches from the ECM can go all the way around the engine bay, under the radiator, through three connectors to find its way from the relay box to the ECM...I had about 6 wires doing this and giving me problems after the SO hit a tree up front; I had to cut these wires off on both ends and replace them with new wires...taking a short cut everytime....left description of my changes in glove-box for any potential new owner of the Jeep

If you have more problems try downloading the Circuit Diagrams for the 2005 models...may be more accurate in that section you are working on although I believe in 2006 they changed to a CAN bus.

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2002 Export CRD 2.5 Sport

The ASD relay has been in and out numerous times since the initial fault. The relay was tested, initially along with starter relay, many weeks ago. When I originally followed the workshop diagnosis (2006 MY), I did have power @ ECM C2 harness connector @ 1,3 & 5 when I jumped 30 and 87 in ASD relay outputs? Which is one of the reasons I suspected a faulty ground circuit in the ECM, yet when I did this again after the ECM repair? and after reading your reply, the ECM energised as soon as I jumped the outputs, even without key in ignition. I then put key in ignition, turned to run position 2, jumped the starter relay outputs and vehicle started. I then put starter and ASD relays back in and tried again with foot on clutch and she started? Something has definitely changed since the ECM repair but when I first refitted the ECM the vehicle would not start with the same symptoms as before? The only other thing I did when starting to retest circuits is to ground the B+ cable before re-connecting battery. I can't really see this having any positive effect, I will have to endure the frustration of not pinpointing the definitive fault, but at least vehicle is running.
As I mentioned I haven't got access to a scanner to read codes so not sure what MIL is picking up. It is my fathers CRD bought and sourced on my recommendation.
I still have a 142,000 mile XJ which I've had for 9+ yrs with no real electrical glitches, although starter motor has been a little intermittent recently, not easily accessible on RHD, will have to get at it to check connections, grounds etc.,
At present all is still good with CRD but MIL light still up. If it remains so at end of week, he will try to book vehicle into a different dealership to have codes read.

Thanks again for your time and help Billwill.

The relay contacts could be sticking intermittently....I would replace the relay with a new one. It should not be very expensive...standard Bosch relay I believe.

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2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16

MIL light now out and Jeep still starting and running with no problems.

Simank