Newly Purchased Flame Red CRD Engine Trouble Already

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:44 am

Regardless of how it failed and why, there IS a warranty on this vehicle. The seller is clearly refusing, or trying to refuse honoring THEIR warranty. Period. The seller is responsible for repairing or "making things right." Any judge, lawyer, court of law, scientist, astrophysicist, accountant, janitor, (get the point?) will tell you the same thing. I would not spend ANY money out of pocket for ANY parts not covered under warranty.

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

Iam planning on going to Tom Obriens on Tuesday to inspect it for myself, they are doing their best to work with the crooked warranty advisor and try to get him to atleast pay for the labor and half of the parts $1200 on them which would leave me paying around $500 to $600 out of my pocket, as of now its just a proposal that their working on to try and help me out alittle, their also going to knock $400 off the total bill that he told me would be parts at cost price and labor at no profit to them as they really want to get the vehicle done and out of the shop to move on to other things, they said basically it would cost them more in lost productivity to have it sitting their for 2 more weeks than it would cost them to finish it mid next week at no profit. So far they had already ordered the parts on their own so their on hand if the decision is made to repair it, however the diesel mechanic is going for training today and Friday so he wont be back until Tuesday after the holiday and thats when I plan to make my visit.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:00 am

Again, you should not have to be paying for ANYTHING, unless there is a deductible or it is not covered. This sounds like a bunch of BS on the warranty/dealers end. You really need to file a complaint or get a lawyer. Been there done that.

racertracer · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:03 am

If the dealer sticks to what he said before and agrees to take the vehicle back, then do it right away, don't give him time to reconsider.

profdlp · **Posted:** Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:44 pm

Lots of good points in the previous posts.

People in a weak position are eager to make deals. People in a strong position don't have to. Stick to your guns and don't negotiate away your rights.

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

Thank you all for your advise I will continue to keep you all upto date with this car deal from hell as it progresses. here is a recap of of things up to now as it stands. 1st found 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited with 116,000 excellent maint records from precious owner vehicle was located Indianapolis Indiana my home state. Vehicle was for sale at Mini Cooper dealer in which previous owner traded for. I test drove the vehicle 2 different times a week apart and went through it with a fine tooth comb. Then I negotiated the price of $9,800 and purchased the vehicle with a full 30 power train warranty to cover all internally lubricated components, after only 20-30 miles off the dealers lot the check engine light came on, I didnt think anything about it the vehicle ran fine and had plenty of power so I drove home and hooked it up to my diagnostic code reader and I got code P0101 Maf low deviation so I called the Mini dealer that I bought the vehicle from and they instructed me to take it to Tom Obrien Chrysler the same dealer they used to do the pre sale service on it. I took it back and they told me that they put a new MAF sensor on it prior to me buying it and they thought that it was fixed. They then had their diesel mechanic diagnose it and told me that the next step would be to remove the valve cover and check for the condition of the rockers and lifters. Tom Obrien Chrysler worked the Mini Cooper dealer that I purchased it from and they agreed to pay for the repair at an estimate of $800 under the purchase warranty. The diesel mechanic was then on vaccation for over a week and nothing happened until the last week of August. Then they called me and said that they found one bent rocker and 2 wore lifters and inorder to fix it a new upgrade kit would have to be purchased from chrysler at the cost of $1,200 on top of labor to put it back together at a total of $2,400. They then called the mini dealer sales manager and he said no the customers on his own. I then get pissed off and call him myself and remind him of the $800 that he had already committed to pay on it, he then said that he would buy the vehicle back before he would pay that kind of money to have it fixed but it would be my responsibility to pay to have it put back together and return it to him in running condition so he could whole sale it at the auction.

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

So then I disagreed with that and told him that hes legally obligated to honor the warranty or purchase the vehicle back including all associated expenses including the sales tax that I paid on it. He got mad at me and said I didn't make near that kind of money on the sale you haggled and haggled and got your price now theirs not much profit to work with to do that and I said the warranty your obligated to has nothing to do with how much you made on the sale. He said listen buddy Ill go upto $1,200 on the repairs but Iam telling you what goes around comes around and your day will come. I then left it at that and I said I will have to think awhile. I then called Tom Obriens and told them the story all over and they said that they would be willing to knock $400 off of the bill which they told me would be the profit and parts at cost to them which gets it down to $1,900 minus the $1,200 from the crooked dealer that I bought it from which leaves me paying $700 out of my own pocket. The service manager then said well see if we can knock a little more off the bill when its all said and done to help you out. So Tuesday morning Iam going back down their to inspect the rockers for myself and then hopefully find out exactly whats going on with the crook sales Manager instead of playing phone tag because Ive had all I can take from him and his arrogance and going back on his word :dead:

profdlp · **Posted:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:49 am

mrwaibel wrote:

...He got mad at me and said I didn't make near that kind of money on the sale you haggled and haggled and got your price now theirs not much profit to work with to do that and I said the warranty your obligated to has nothing to do with how much you made on the sale. He said listen buddy Ill go upto $1,200 on the repairs but I am telling you what goes around comes around and your day will come...

There is an old saying in law:

If the law is on your side, argue the law.
If the facts are on your side, argue the facts.
If neither the law nor the facts are on your side, pound on the table.

It sounds like he is now at the "pound on the table" stage, which means he realizes that neither the law nor the facts are on his side.

Stick to your guns.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:51 am

I agree. Stick to your guns. DO NOT PAY ANYTHING! It is NOT your responsibility as per the warranty, regardless of how much you haggled, etc. They gave a warranty, they have to honor it. End of discussion. If they won't, get a lawyer. They will have to pay for that too. They will also have to pay for your trouble and aggrivation. It'll get a whole hell of a lot more expensive for them really quick... Be sure to remind them of that!

Leeann · **Joined:** Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:19 pm **Posts:** 523

You purchased a warranty, which is a legal and binding contract. If he is refusing to honor his warranty, he is breaking the terms of the contract.

Consult a lawyer.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:33 pm

Leeann wrote:

You purchased a warranty, which is a legal and binding contract. If he is refusing to honor his warranty, he is breaking the terms of the contract.

Consult a lawyer.

+1.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:59 pm

Leeann wrote:

You purchased a warranty, which is a legal and binding contract. If he is refusing to honor his warranty, he is breaking the terms of the contract.

Consult a lawyer.

x3 - Lawyers will offer you at least a free half hour consult. Bring them all the paperwork you have from everyone. This will help him see what he can do, and very likely, a visit / strongly worded letter from the lawyer will make the dealer cough up quick.

GO OVER THE SALES DROID's HEAD. The dealership has an owner somewhere. Don't just call in from your phone, use someone else's and make an appointment with the secretary to get a meeting with the owner, or better yet - let the lawyer do this. What is happening is this dealer monkey is trying anything he can do to avoid losing HIS profit on this deal. That is NOT your problem, you bought the warranty, make him honor it.

user113 · **Posted:** Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:31 am

The fact that you "you haggled and haggled and got your price" is irrelevant to everything. It is exactly what you are supposed to do! Good job well done.

His response: "He said listen buddy Ill go upto $1,200 on the repairs but Iam telling you what goes around comes around and your day will come" concerns me. First, this almost sounds like a threat. No, it really is a threat. This definitely needs to be brought to the attention of the dealership owner. That is no way for any of their staff to treat a customer! Second, it is clearly an attempt to bully you to allow him to breach the negotiated agreement. Don't let him get away with it.

I'm with the others, you should not even consider dropping a single dime on repairs since said repairs (up to any limits specified in the contract, and to full operational standards, i.e., no CEL) were clearly part of the negotiated agreement. You did NOT buy it AS-IS.

And you can probably sue for any attorney fees,depending on what your state laws say. Ask a contract attorney.

profdlp · **Posted:** Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:55 am

Good comments, user113.

Something else I should have thought of before (and why you really need to see a lawyer), but once you start negotiating changes to the warranty you could be placing yourself on shaky ground.

racertracer · **Posted:** Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:30 am

I agree that you have a legal case that may be to your advantage but remember that If you decide to go legal and the dealer decides to fight it in court, plan on a long battle.

Once it goes legal, it will take months if not years to get it resolved.

I know this from experience. A close friend went through the same issue with a local dealership.

It also dealt with a used car that required $1400 worth of warranty work within the 30 day warranty period. The dealer decided to fight the complaint and not repair the vehicle. The dealership lost the suit and it cost him over $60,000 in legal fees, repair costs and whatever else the lawyers agreed upon. But it took almost 2 years to resolve and many days in court.

Personally, I don't think it was worth all the time he spent with his lawyer and in court, even though he won the suit.

I say negotiate the best deal up front now without the use of a lawyer, return the vehicle if you can. Going legal will only benefit the legal system and it just isn't worth it.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:25 am

Just curious what the latest on this situation was. I hate seeing crooked dealers trying to screw someone...

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

Ok here is the latest on the CRD I went down to Tom Obrien Chrysler twice this week both Tuesday and Thursday and they got the vehicle running on Tuesday but when he put the valve cover on he bumped one of the rockers off its seat and it didn't run right so he had to take the valve cover back off to put the rocker back into its place. I have developed a good friendship with the mechanic thats working on it and I even have his personal cell number now. He showed me the old rockers and lifters, their dinky little things and I couldn't find any that were actually bent so the service manager was incorrect in what he told me before. The mechanic showed me and said that the failure was actually due to the seized rollers that on some wouldn't turn at all and some were wore and really loose to the point that it wouldn't let the valve open fully causing the low deviation reading. He then asked do you plan on getting the GDE tune and I said most likely if I get to keep it. The timing belt has definately been replaced recently its a goodyear brand, the tensioner is new and you can tell by the paint marks the water pump was changed at the same time so I can now verify the previous owners service records being correct. Everything is currently back together and its running great. I told the mechanic to go ahead and drive the vehicle a few days and make sure theirs no problems with it and until we figure out how this will all come together with the warranty deal.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:42 am

Sure hope you are not planning to pay for this out of pocket... The selling/warranty dealerships responsibility is to make this right and pay for it.

user113 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:30 pm

Sounds like it might be a keeper after all, hope you do as well negotiating the repairs as you did the initial purchase.

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

Alright I have now had it with the crooked sales manager, my Jeep has been done since last Thursday and I can't get it until the bill has been paid and so far they have not payed anything on it and he has decided to go on a 2 week vaccation. Early this week I consulted a lawyer that is willing to look into my case and let me know what my legal options are. This was a very hard step to take as I have never had to use a lawyers services before. Hes a local small town guy and fairly new to his practice and isnt afraid of doing small claims work to gain experience. He definately feels like Iam in the right on this and he already knows how rare the CRD Liberty is. As of now I have been advised to do nothing until he gets back with me on Monday. My ultimate goal here is to use my lawyer go right over the sales manager and get the dealership to pay the bill in full, after all the warranty papers say the dealership shall pay 100% of the parts and 100% of the labor within 30 day or 1,000 miles which ever comes first. They mention nothing about it being tied to how much commission they made on the sale or anything even close. After all the sales manager dosen't own the dealership so its not is money anyway.

Newly Purchased Flame Red CRD Engine Trouble Already

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