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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:59 pm 
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Dont forget the fuel pump alignment. If you have the cover off, then you can check and see whether the fuel pump is aligned at the same time that the front hub line is at 3 oclock.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:12 pm 
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LMWatBullRun wrote:
Dont forget the fuel pump alignment. If you have the cover off, then you can check and see whether the fuel pump is aligned at the same time that the front hub line is at 3 oclock.


He needs to take the entire inner cover off to replace the rockers. Fuel pump can be rotated directly to the timing mark on the inner cover (approximately at the 8 o'clock position) at some point during the process.

When rotating the engine BY HAND during reassembly, remember that the fuel pump will only match its timing mark every 3rd rotation - So to have the two cams, the crank, and the fuel pump all back to their starting positions at the same time - the engine must be rotated 6 full revolutions.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 4:32 am 
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OK, I finally got to the Libby
I will post pics but need approval.
Very clear why it would not run.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:44 am 
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LMWatBullRun wrote:
Dont forget the fuel pump alignment. If you have the cover off, then you can check and see whether the fuel pump is aligned at the same time that the front hub line is at 3 oclock.


:ROTFL: All the talk about aligning the pump makes me laugh. I did one customers CRD aligning the pump and mine purposely misaligning the pump and they both run great. Go ahead and keep posting this misinformation I need a laugh sometimes. :ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:59 pm 
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That mark is there for a reason. Others have stated the reason, and I concur. I won't get into the why or how's of it. Ask Bosch or any diesel mechanic why... :2cents: To each their own I suppose... but it is not "misinformation."

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:05 pm 
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BlackLibertyCRD wrote:
LMWatBullRun wrote:
Dont forget the fuel pump alignment. If you have the cover off, then you can check and see whether the fuel pump is aligned at the same time that the front hub line is at 3 oclock.


:ROTFL: All the talk about aligning the pump makes me laugh. I did one customers CRD aligning the pump and mine purposely misaligning the pump and they both run great. Go ahead and keep posting this misinformation I need a laugh sometimes. :ROTFL:


I bet if you put it on dyno you'll see a small difference. I had it misaligned when I did the timing belt due to lack of tools, not by much though, and "fixed" it after a while. Either my mind is playing games, either the car runs a bit smoother and more responsive.

But overall I agree, that's why this engine is common rail, rail holds pressure and injectors open and leave fuel through, shouldn't matter when the pressure peak is delivered from the pump as in theory the rail should have a constant pressure. Some folks stated that there are some pressure peaks in the cp3 pump that do matter for continuous optimal pressure on the rail, and that's why it needs to be aligned. Honestly, as a principle, I don't really get it either why it needs to be on the sign. Unless, the fuel volume in the rail is so small and pressure drops significantly when an injector opens, that the timing on when to pressurize back the rail is very important... In this case, I can see a reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:49 pm 
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thermorex wrote:
BlackLibertyCRD wrote:
LMWatBullRun wrote:
Dont forget the fuel pump alignment. If you have the cover off, then you can check and see whether the fuel pump is aligned at the same time that the front hub line is at 3 oclock.


:ROTFL: All the talk about aligning the pump makes me laugh. I did one customers CRD aligning the pump and mine purposely misaligning the pump and they both run great. Go ahead and keep posting this misinformation I need a laugh sometimes. :ROTFL:


I bet if you put it on dyno you'll see a small difference. I had it misaligned when I did the timing belt due to lack of tools, not by much though, and "fixed" it after a while. Either my mind is playing games, either the car runs a bit smoother and more responsive.

But overall I agree, that's why this engine is common rail, rail holds pressure and injectors open and leave fuel through, shouldn't matter when the pressure peak is delivered from the pump as in theory the rail should have a constant pressure. Some folks stated that there are some pressure peaks in the cp3 pump that do matter for continuous optimal pressure on the rail, and that's why it needs to be aligned. Honestly, as a principle, I don't really get it either why it needs to be on the sign. Unless, the fuel volume in the rail is so small and pressure drops significantly when an injector opens, that the timing on when to pressurize back the rail is very important... In this case, I can see a reason.


If true timing it would be in time first revolution, 33.3 percent off the second revolution and 66.6 percent off the third because we are also dealing with a 4 cylinder. Don't make no different if there is a pulse because head pressure will stay the same.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 11:47 pm 
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I've been wondering about this myself. The fuel timing is regulated by the ECM via the solenoids on top of the injectors. The common rail is constantly supplied with pressure regulated fuel.

It would be tantamount to timing the water pump.

I think the timing marks are casting holdovers from the 2.5L and other variations.

I think I'm right, unless of course I'm wrong. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:03 pm 
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BlackLibertyCRD wrote:

If true timing it would be in time first revolution, 33.3 percent off the second revolution and 66.6 percent off the third because we are also dealing with a 4 cylinder. Don't make no different if there is a pulse because head pressure will stay the same.


Partially true... But we miss lots of data to make a fair assessment... For example, at 2000 rpm, the crankshaft should spin 2000 times/minute. That means for 1 rotation, only one injector pulverizes an amount of fuel. I do not recall on the top of my head how many degrees (0 to 360) the fuel pump pulley spins with one crank rotation. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying it could be possible that the peak of the pump pressure to the rail could be just a tad before the injector opens, ensuring the optimum pressure in the rail right before injector would need it. Again, we don't have the complete data to make a fair assessment. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can chip in with more info.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:18 pm 
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If I remember from speaking to GDE, it was said that the fuel injectors could open when the pump wasn't fully pressurized, and there would be less fuel delivered at the moment it was needed. Still fuel, but not enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Don't buy a crown water pump! Dead CRD, Please help.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:32 pm 
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Positive displacement pump

A positive displacement pump makes a fluid move by trapping a fixed amount and forcing (displacing) that trapped volume into the discharge pipe.
Some positive displacement pumps use an expanding cavity on the suction side and a decreasing cavity on the discharge side. Liquid flows into the pump as the cavity on the suction side expands and the liquid flows out of the discharge as the cavity collapses. The volume is constant through each cycle of operation.

Positive displacement pump behavior and safety[edit]

Positive displacement pumps, unlike centrifugal or roto-dynamic pumps, theoretically can produce the same flow at a given speed (RPM) no matter what the discharge pressure. Thus, positive displacement pumps are constant flow machines. However, a slight increase in internal leakage as the pressure increases prevents a truly constant flow rate.
A positive displacement pump must not operate against a closed valve on the discharge side of the pump, because it has no shutoff head like centrifugal pumps. A positive displacement pump operating against a closed discharge valve continues to produce flow and the pressure in the discharge line increases until the line bursts, the pump is severely damaged, or both.
A relief or safety valve on the discharge side of the positive displacement pump is therefore necessary. The relief valve can be internal or external. The pump manufacturer normally has the option to supply internal relief or safety valves. The internal valve is usually only used as a safety precaution. An external relief valve in the discharge line, with a return line back to the suction line or supply tank provides increased safety.

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