Locking Hubs

jimymc · **Joined:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:51 pm **Posts:** 248

Sometimes advances don't seem to be advances. I don't think you can get anything with locking (unlocking) hubs anymore. People have gotten so lazy that it is too much work to get out and lock the hubs before they go offroad. It seems that locking hubs would do a lot to help with some of the inherent difficulties with the KJ. There would be less wear and tear on the front drive train. Read... expensive front drive shafts lasting just about forever and same for CV's that wouldn't be turning the whole time you drive. Fuel mileage would certainly go up because the engine wouldn't have to "push" all the front drive train down the highway.

Full-time front driveline sucks!

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:07 am

I miss locking hubs to a point, problem is that a lot of people did not take care of them either and they would get to the point of not working. The ones we have to deal with now are better for the "General Public" to maintain, mileage would not be that much better really between the ones from yesterday and today's. As far as parts wearing out they wore out on the old ones as well!
What would i rather have? Manual of course but those days are almost all gone so have to move ahead.

jimymc · **Joined:** Thu Dec 17, 2009 7:51 pm **Posts:** 248

Tom, I think you know what I'm talking aboutl I have owned several 4WD vehicles and put bunches of miles on them. They all had either manual or automatic locking hubs and none of them wore out a front drive shaft. In fact, the '96 Tahoe that weighed somewhere around 5300 pounds with a 350 V8 got almost as good gas mileage as a Liberty. Im just saying that it is a shame that tried-and-true drive systems have to go by the wayside to accommodate people who have to have everything done for them. Some of this at the expense of reliability and fuel mileage. Maybe I'm just old fashioned or an old fogey, but I don't remember having windows that broke so often when we had to roll them up/down with a crank handle and God knows that I don't want a truck that has push buttons to select 4WD or a hole you have to put a pen tip in to disengage the T-case. Give me a direct physical connection between a lever and the T-case. While we are at it, I sure wish my Jeep was stick shift. Got a good deal on the auto I have so I'll live with it. Oh yeah, too much electronics can get you into trouble as well. Field repairs of electronic stuff is nigh unto impossible. Had an old Dodge Powerwagon that broke down on a remote highway. The leaf spring to the points snapped. I wound a large rubber band around the points and off we went. Only made a few miles, but had plenty of rubber bands. Got us home.

Now... I feel better.

JustinP · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:57 pm

I have had both manual locking hubs in a straight axle yota, and two always locked jeeps, XJ, and KJ, and ive had alot of friends with automatic hubs, i HATE auto hubs, to me their garbage, when theyre new, they are the best of everything, but once they get old they start to malfunction, always when you need the 4wd to function properly. I loved my toyota, but, i always felt it to be annoying to have to get out everytime i wanted to lock it in. what a pita. Like beach days back in FL, drive on the beach, stop, get out, lock hubs, while holding up people behind you waiting to come in, then back in and drive, then the reverse procedure to leave. Hassling. I love JEEPs "always locked axles. When I need 4wd, I reach down to my shifter, pull, and voila, 4wd. Alot less to go wrong IMO. It does add drag, and maybe a minimal amount of extra maintenance, but I wouldnt trade it for manual or auto hubs.

Remember tho, TJs and I think YJs had a disconnecting axle, the RH axle shaft used a vaccuum actuator to pull a sleeve over the inner and outer axle shaft to engage the axle. Its a junk system IMO and usually gets swapped with a solid axle shaft to stay locked all the time, or a cable actuator unit is installed.

I will continue enjoying my non electronic 4wd, and my ease of 4wd operation. All just my :2cents:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:20 pm

jimymc wrote:

Sometimes advances don't seem to be advances. I don't think you can get anything with locking (unlocking) hubs anymore. People have gotten so lazy that it is too much work to get out and lock the hubs before they go offroad. It seems that locking hubs would do a lot to help with some of the inherent difficulties with the KJ. There would be less wear and tear on the front drive train. Read... expensive front drive shafts lasting just about forever and same for CV's that wouldn't be turning the whole time you drive. Fuel mileage would certainly go up because the engine wouldn't have to "push" all the front drive train down the highway.

Full-time front driveline sucks!

You will gain less then 1mpg in a KJ not turning the front driveline,I know I had the whole front driveline removed(CV's,driveshaft,and front diff) for over 1 year with zero mpg increase.

The always "locked" system newer Jeeps(like the KJ) use is stupid proof and very strong,much stronger then any manual or auto locking hub design hands down.

With my SFA I now have manual hubs up front,they are the weakest link in my front driveline,I designed it that way since they are cheap,easy to replace,and easy to carry spares(which I do carry).And yes they are being blown left and right here in CO under lighter rigs with bigger tires.Better to break a $100 set of locking hubs then a $650 set of alloy axles and $450 set of front u-joints.Plus with my CTM's up front it is best to not turn them in 2wd due to they have no needle bearings(just a bronze bushing) and not made for DD.

Oh and no they do not make any kits to convert to manual hubs on a KJ,probably never be any and if there was would cost more then you'd want to spend anyway.

mk38tech · **Joined:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:25 pm **Posts:** 72

still want lockouts. unit bearings need to be replaced and i dont feel like spending a single penny on them. i'd rather buy an XJ to drive while i SAS the KJ

CIMARRON13 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:24 pm

I don't mind getting out to lock hubs. I usually lock them when I hit the dirt and shift in and out of 4wd as needed. Unlock when I get back to pavement. My Land Cruiser is now converted from AWD to 2wd/4wd with locking hubs. My Ford had the auto lockers but I switched them for Warn manual hubs. If the Liberty could be done cheap I would switch to manual hubs in a heartbeat.

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:48 pm

mk38tech wrote:

still want lockouts. unit bearings need to be replaced and i dont feel like spending a single penny on them. i'd rather buy an XJ to drive while i SAS the KJ

How would buying a XJ be better ?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:07 pm

tommudd wrote:

mk38tech wrote:

still want lockouts. unit bearings need to be replaced and i dont feel like spending a single penny on them. i'd rather buy an XJ to drive while i SAS the KJ

How would buying a XJ be better ?

Well then he can buy lockouts that cost like $1200+ and extremely hard to find and you can almost forget about finding spare parts :ROTFL:

mk38tech · **Joined:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:25 pm **Posts:** 72

i seem to find wheel bearings pretty easy these days. hahaha. what other option is there besides a sas

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:26 pm

mk38tech wrote:

what other option is there besides a sas

None as far as a KJ/KK goes.

mk38tech · **Joined:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:25 pm **Posts:** 72

who actually sells the hub conversion?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:42 pm

mk38tech wrote:

who actually sells the hub conversion?

For a XJ?

If so WARN used to make them but I believe they sold the rights to Mile Marker or Rugged Ridge.USA Alloy sells a kit but your limited to 33" tires and requires special machined rotors.

mk38tech · **Joined:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:25 pm **Posts:** 72

no KJ. if i buy a XJ i wont have any problems finding what i need. there seems to be millions of options for them, thats the only reason im debating grabbing one up. i just want to get away from unit bearings with the KJ but if i dont have a choice then i guess rock auto will be gettin some more of my money haha

tommudd · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:36 pm

Wouldn't say millions, a few thats all
for the KJ buy some good bearings not cheap ones and be good
at 195,000 my stock ones are still running good

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:51 pm

mk38tech wrote:

no KJ. if i buy a XJ i wont have any problems finding what i need. there seems to be millions of options for them, thats the only reason im debating grabbing one up. i just want to get away from unit bearings with the KJ but if i dont have a choice then i guess rock auto will be gettin some more of my money haha

Nope zero options for a KJ unless you do a SFA swap.As far as a XJ your choices are very few and there all expensive and all rather junk.

streetglideok · **Posted:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:01 am

This reminds me of the customer that came in years ago with a Corolla. He was an older guy, and the car had some running issues. Upon hearing that we would charge $90 for diagnostic time, he stated screw that, he would just convert it to a carb'd engine. We all know this old man never did such a thing. He may have contemplated it, thinking it would be better than someone solving a simple issue(probably a bad distributor), and was convinced he could build an intake for it.

In one's quest to fix what they think is a fault, they will spend a lot of money, time and energy, and accomplish mediocre results. They may in fact end up worse off than before. Jeep used to have a center disconnect just like Ford, GM, and others all use. They eventually dropped it, it didn't do anything other than add a weak link and one less part spinning(front driveshaft). Lockout hubs will require larger hubs, more weight, and complexity, and likely more rolling resistance than unit bearings in the end. You could buy umpteen sets of quality unit bearings before you would come out ahead. If you're doing a SFA swap, that's one thing, but trying to convert our current system to have lock out hubs is another, to which I ask the real question, why? If you wish for a center disconnect, I suggest buying an early 90s vintage K1500 Chevy with the stock wait-a-trac 4wd system. Take it to some cold state, and see how long you wait for the 4wd to work. Guys in Wi hated the things, and when they offered a vacuum conversion, many jumped on it.

USPLibby · **Joined:** Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:29 am **Posts:** 377

It may not be such a bad thing. My friend had to take his Range Rover in for brakes and it cost him almost $2k. I wondered why it was so much $$$. I started reading up about some of these trucks with special hubs that have to be removed to take off the discs, that adds several extra hours of labor right there. It's very nice being able to knock off the discs by loosening just a couple bolts and a knock with a hammer. :wink:

tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:35 pm

streetglideok wrote:

This reminds me of the customer that came in years ago with a Corolla. He was an older guy, and the car had some running issues. Upon hearing that we would charge $90 for diagnostic time, he stated screw that, he would just convert it to a carb'd engine. We all know this old man never did such a thing. He may have contemplated it, thinking it would be better than someone solving a simple issue(probably a bad distributor), and was convinced he could build an intake for it.

In one's quest to fix what they think is a fault, they will spend a lot of money, time and energy, and accomplish mediocre results. They may in fact end up worse off than before. Jeep used to have a center disconnect just like Ford, GM, and others all use. They eventually dropped it, it didn't do anything other than add a weak link and one less part spinning(front driveshaft). Lockout hubs will require larger hubs, more weight, and complexity, and likely more rolling resistance than unit bearings in the end. You could buy umpteen sets of quality unit bearings before you would come out ahead. If you're doing a SFA swap, that's one thing, but trying to convert our current system to have lock out hubs is another, to which I ask the real question, why? If you wish for a center disconnect, I suggest buying an early 90s vintage K1500 Chevy with the stock wait-a-trac 4wd system. Take it to some cold state, and see how long you wait for the 4wd to work. Guys in Wi hated the things, and when they offered a vacuum conversion, many jumped on it.

times two!!

Locking Hubs

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