Hello, I took my 2007 Jeep Liberty (KJ) CRD to the dealer. The number one glow plug had failed and I was told that all the plugs would have to be replaced because of an updated design along with a new relay and computer software update. They quoted me $1500 and I said OK because I wanted the job done right. WHEN THEY TRIED TO TAKE THE FIRST PLUG OUT THE CERAMIC TIP SNAPPED OFF IN THE HEAD and know they want $6500 for an new head!

Has anyone ever run into this. I tried running the engine with the plug out for a few hours but the tip won't budge and is impossible to gain access to. AANY IDEAS OR SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE WELCOME

The ceramic glow plug end broke off the metal portion and is stuck inside the head. I ran the engine in hopes it would head up and shoot out (a common practice on older benz). I am looking for a way to now push it through and remove the fragments from the injector hole. However, I am not sure what the pre chamber looks like and would like to know if someone else has attempted this before and may have some insight or photos of the head design.

There is no precombustion chamber on this beast. Look around on the board and you'll see plenty of photos of what the head looks like. If you are still stuck when I get home tomorrow night drop me a pm and I will post a picture of a head.

If it were me, I would resign myself to head removal, and I would not have the stealership touch it. If you want it done right, do it yourself. If you cannot, then I suggest that you hire either Sir Sam or Geordi to do the job for you. Either of them will do a better job for less money. While you are at it, I'd put studs in, too.

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Grid power- the one true essential

2005 Liberty CRD- ARP studs, Fumoto, Hayden FC, inline Tstat, ETechno 7v GP, Platinum P1, in-tank lift pump.
1983 Volvo D24T
1981 Volvo D24
Dodge Cummins TD
Case 580B
Mitsubishi MT180 diesel
Kubota BX25 diesel

Cylinder head in case you were wondering.

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'97 Wrangler Sahara with some mods.

'06 Liberty CRD Limited GDE Hot Tune, Lift Pump

Head Gasket and Timing Belt Pics

$1500 for a glow plug kit/replacement?! $6500 for a head?! What dealer is this? They are insane!

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Mike Rausch
Bear, Delaware
2006 Liberty Sport CRD 253K

Couldn't agree more with this statement, that's what my dad used to tell me when I was a kid.

Dealers are stupid Muppets, I wouldn't let them do an oil change.

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2005 kj CRD, samco, suncoast tc, provent, Kennedy lift pump, GDE ECO full torque, 2nd gen filter head, 245/70/16 a/t tires, mopar light bar, fumoto oil valve, OEM Skid Plates, ARB Front bumper and HD OME, tru cool LPD47391 40k GVW tranny cooler (stock cooler delete), FF Dynamics e-fan and shroud, rocker arms replaced, HDS2 190F thermostat.

Back when I had my sport I broke the top off plug#3 leaving the threaded part of it still in the head. It is not the end of the world, you can get it out with not more than 30 bucks (including drinks) and your lucky weekend warrior shirt.
What you have to do is drill 1mm out of the inside of the plug that is stuck in the head, then with a thread maker make a thread inside the broken plug, buy a 6" long bolt of the same thread pitch as the thread you made in the plug, then put it through a pipe or socket of a larger diameter with few washers so it will lock the bolt against the socket, and finally start tightening the bolt so as it goes in it will put pressure on the socket it will start pooping out the broken half of the plug.
NOT difficult but it is time consuming as there is not a ton of space to work in.
I wish I could find the thread where this was discussed but I tried without luck.

I did that broken plug extraction based on this Mercedes post (yes it happens on Mercedes too.) You only have to take the necessary measures to apply it to your CRD. here is the link https://sites.google.com/site/alanmcrey ... cedesom606

If only the ceramic portion broke off, the idea of drilling / tapping a hole into it will NOT work. The ceramic cannot be drilled, it will just shatter even more. Parts of broken ceramic are almost as hard as diamond, and can score up the inside of your combustion chamber quite badly. It sucks, but that head has to come off.

It does NOT need to be replaced, just pull the head and poke a rod down the glow plug hole, punching out the ceramic grit and debris onto a bench. Then put the head back in.

Where are you located? I may be able to help you out, if you are interested. Certainly don't let the dealer continue to screw up on your Jeep!

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Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

My issue is a little more complicated. The person who took the plug off was able to cleanly unthread the plug. However, ONLY THE CERAMIC TIP IS STILL IN THE HEAD. I attached a photo of the plug.

Thanks mark2m for the pic of the head... It looks like there is no pre chamber and the plug extends into the combustion chamber. THE QUESTION I HAVE NOW IS... can the plug push straight through or is there a shoulder on the head/plug that will keep it from going through?

Option 1:
I can try and force the plug down into the combustion chamber and try and try and fish it out of the injector hole.

or

Option 2:
I will try and take the injector out and fill the cylinder (at TDC) with a carbon loosening chemical. Then suck the chemical back out and reinstall the injector. Then start it up with the glow plug housing out to try and force the plug tip out. I did this before but it seems to be stuck and I have heard that the tips and swell or get carbon build up that keeps them in.

Geordi... I would rather not take the head off if at all possible.
Otherwise, the repair should be easy.

I can understand the reluctance to removing the head. However... Your plan will not be successful unless those "carbon loosening chemicals" are capable of dissolving a clay flowerpot or the graphite lead of a pencil. Brake Cleaner just ain't gonna cut it here.

The tip can easily be pushed onto the top of the piston. However, the tip itself is about an inch long (since it broke right at the base) and most likely is still fully intact. "fishing it out" will be exceptionally difficult, because you will be working through a hole that is just barely 3/8" wide and down a 3/4" wide bore hole about 3 inches. Then you need to catch the end of the tip and manage to get it lengthwise to the hole, to be able to pull it out.

The question then becomes... Has anything of it been left in the cylinder to possibly jam a valve or score up the walls? The ceramic is super-hard and obviously brittle.

Trust me on this, I had exactly the same kind of break happen on another member's CRD when changing the glow plugs. The tip shot all the way down the glow plug shaft and right into the cylinder. I visually verified with a borescope, and had no choice but to lift the head. HOWEVER - I did not actually remove the head from the engine bay. I was able to lift the head enough that I could get my fingers into the cylinder, pull the piece out, and clean everything.

Much as I might like to be able to tell you that you can do this without pulling the head... It isn't possible. What IS possible (if you are game for it) is that the head bolts can be re-used and so can the gasket if you aren't changing anything else. We didn't replace the gasket, but Papaindigo did elect to install the ARP studs instead of the factory bolts. Either is a good option, but the studs are better all around. Reusing the gasket and bolts will save you some money on parts, or the studs are about $360 from SummitRacing.

Sadly, there isn't any way around this job. Everyone that has had a tip break like yours, has had to pull the head. Yes, it sucks, and it is about a 12 hour job for this nonsense. Welcome to every diesel.

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

I will agree with the others. You will most likely have to remove the head. The injector hole is small.... I cannot even get my borescope to go all the way in (the probe is 8.5mm, so the hole is less than that).

But it won't hurt to try something, as long as you are prepared to pull the head if it does not work. The one idea that I would try is to vacuum it out. Remove the injector. Turn the crank so that the piston is about half an inch from TDC. Push the ceramic tip into the cylinder and hope it lands near the center (the piston is dished in the center, but has a tit in the exact middle). Take a small tube (less than 8mm outside diameter) and hook it to a vacuum. Insert tube into the injector hole and hope it finds the tip. Carefully remove.

Just remember, if this fails, then you will need to pull the head. If you do, it is a good time to inspect the rockers for wear. Here are a few more pictures:

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2005 Deep Beryl Green Pearlcoat
2006 Light Khaki Metallic Clearcoat
2006 Inferno Red Crystal Pearlcoat
2006 Midnight Blue Pearlcoat
2006 Gold Limited
2015 Black Ecodiesel
2015 Black Ecodiesel 2

Sadly the head will need to come off. Reading this string I gather the metal body of the glow plug came out but the ceramic tip remains in the hole, correct. If that's the case whatever you do DO NOT try to run the engine any more. In theory I suppose it's possible for compression to shoot the tip out the hole but since you tried and that did not work I would strongly recommend against trying any more. If the tip comes loose on an intake stroke then into the engine it goes which virtually certainly results in piston/cylinder/valve damage.

Based on geordi and my collective sad experience I don't think there is any way to "vacuum" it out. Yes you could probably tap it thru into the combustion chamber. But trust me the glow plug hole is tiny, ca. just barely bigger than the 0.02" diameter of the glow plug tip. The chances of getting a vacuum something thru there to grab exactly the end of the plug tip and pull it back out the same hole with carbon around it is likely somewhat less than zero. It might??? be possible to snake something in there while looking down the injector hole with a bore scope to maneuver the vacuum thing but I doubt it. Similar problem with the injector hole although it is a bit larger.

I see you have an 07 which means your not in the US and are at least somewhat in the clutches of a dealer which is unfortunate as the least expensive option, listen to geordi, is to pull the head (it will have to come all the way off); remove the stuck injector; reinstall the head. You can probably reuse the original head gasket and bolts although, as geordi notes, I went with ARP studs and you can get 4 7v steel glow plugs from idParts and forget the new relay and ECU flash. All of that can be handled as a DIY or by any competent mechanic who can follow instructions, in fact the hardest part is getting the head back on without knocking the rockers off. Unfortunately a dealer a) will demand that the head gasket and bolts be replaced and b) won't use the 7v glow plugs and will do other "required" things to separate you from more $s.

If you were going to be charged $1,500 US for the initial glow plug replacement I'll be polite and just say that's stiff. The 5v glow plug kit with relay (68090434AA) is ca. $200 list (ca. $150 on line); an ECU flash is typically $100; and the labor to just pull and replace 4 glow plugs should be ca. 2 hrs. How that equals $1,500 escapes me.

PS I don't know how many miles are on your engine but if you are anywhere near 100,000 miles or even if not the vehicle is at least 6 years old it's time to change your timing belt. Given that the head has to come off you will have to remove the current timing belt, put it back on, and reset everything else involved in a TB job any way in which case the $75 or so cost of a new Gates timing belt (T336) is trivial. There should not be any added labor charge, part only.

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

Thanks to everyone for all the insight!

I will assume the head is coming off but will attempt to remove the plug through the injector hole or with pressure (not running).

papaindigo: as far as the dealer price is concerned... Chrysler is no longer in bed with VM Motori and therefore they no longer offer the glow plug 'kit'. They have increased the prices and now sell the plugs separately in addition to requiring an new relay. The parts total was around $600 + $400 labor + $500 standard overcharge.

PS: They wanted to charge me $150 for breaking it (looking at it) and I argued the point to get the car back free of charge.

If pressure at the injector hole doesn't push out the tip, try to loosen it first and pressure again.
It will be difficult to fish it out once it makes its way to the cylinder.


EDIT- warning, the tip will be a bullet!

You can get the 5V kit online using the part number I provided for ca. $150 US plus shipping or you can go to idParts (http://idparts.com/catalog/index.php?cP ... dq5d6pklo2) and get 4 ETecno steel 7v glow plugs for ca $100 plus shipping. The latter are a drop in replacement for the 7v ceramics and do not require an ECU reflash.

I frankly don't think it will work but if you pull the injector for the appropriate cylinder AND that cylinders valves are closed, you might have to manually rotate the engine to get there, AND if you can pressurize the cylinder with an external air source then maybe you can soak and gently free up the glow plug tip in such a manner as to pop it out of the hole by that air pressure.

Look for a PM

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Sold to LOST member my 05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs

If you have the car back from them, GOOD! That is the first step to getting this fixed properly. We can walk you through the rest. It isn't mechanically very difficult if you can follow procedures, but it will take time and precision.

Since you will be taking the valve cover off as well, DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE TIMING right now. You can disassemble everything as happy as you please without any special tools at all. Reassembly will really only require 3 special tools, 2 of which can be purchased from members here. The third, is the counter-hold tool that you can either make or purchase from IDparts.com. Look for the VW timing tools, it is a long bar named (i think) Cam generic counter-hold bar. There is a special VM tool, but I have used that with the counter hold as a double-safety, and I like using either both together or just the counter hold bar. The VM tool still allows the pulleys to rotate a little when presented with the 80 ft-lb of torque that you will need to use to lock the cam pulleys onto the cams.

You can reset the engine timing very easily with everything disassembled. To start deciding if you have the tools and skills to do this, I would download and read the Timing Belt Replacement how-to guide. I believe that GreenDieselEngineering.com has it on their website, or it may be here in the Noob thread sticky. That is the bulk of the process. Once the timing parts are ALL removed as if you were replacing the water pump (if you do, just replace the front half, it is much easier) then the rest of the work is relatively easy.

The injectors are ONLY held down by a single 10mm bolt into a crows' foot clamp, and a dirt-seal o-ring that is probably covered in filth. Just gently rotate the injectors side-to-side (leave the high pressure line connected to the injector end) until they work loose. Be VERY gentle on the return lines on top of the injectors. They are fragile plastic. Remove the metal clip, and use a tiny flat screwdriver to gently pry them straight up until the o-ring releases. It will take some time and effort, but they WILL come out.

Keep them in order, it matters to the computer. Unplug the electrics from the injectors, the temp sensor, the 2 connectors on the airbox, and the viscous heater, the camshaft sensor (back left) the 2 fuel rail sensors (back right), the MAP... And LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE. If you use a small hook and some string, you can lift the harness straight up and tie it out of the way to the hood.

You may find it helpful to put a little tape tag on each of the injector cables, as the #4 is the same as the fuel rail sensor, and they do NOT belong reversed.

Pull the fuel return line out of the way, but leave everything connected to it. The plastic is too weak to mess with. The large fuel rail comes off as one piece with the sensors in place. DO NOT REMOVE THEM. They are one-time-use-only if they are removed, and will be just fine staying where they are on the rail. The fuel line from the main pump can just be loosened at the pump and rotated out of the way.

Now you are in the position to remove the CCV puck, and the remaining bolts are all for the valve cover. Once that is off, the head bolts are next, and if you are creative, you can lift the head just enough with an engine crane and some chain (bolted to the valve cover holes) so you can get your hands into the cylinder and get that piece out.

Then just reverse the process and put everything back where you found it. Head bolt torque: 130 lb-ft for the center rows, 120 or 125 for the outer rows. IGNORE THE BOOK with the "turn this many degrees" method, it is crap.

Good luck!

_________________
Proud supporting vendor of LOST Jeeps
TRAVELING CRD TECH. I come to you!
Need help? Just ask! I've taken it apart more than most.
Email jeep [at] maincomputer [dot] com - BOARD MESSAGING IS BROKEN
Over 225 CRDs currently driving with my valves, timing belt, rockers, or ARP Studs.
Bad noises = REALLY bad things.

A long shot, if the ceramic is still in the opening, maybe the compression of starting the engine might force it out?

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20 year owner of Libby CRD!
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

I said try the strongest vacuum cleaner you can find by adapting a vinyl 3/8" line to it. Apply some loosening agent inside the plug hole and wait a good hour. then slide the vacuum adapted vinyl line two or three inches inside the plug channel, make sure you use a rubber band at the coupling part of the vinyl tube to the head so you maintained the maximum vacuum possible. This won't cost more than $3 and one hour to try and might save the day, if it works you'll save yourself some $$ and the time of removing the top part of the engine.
I'll pray for you