Could I 4 link rear at 3.5in

Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

Looking to run a wj or xj style rear end four link. I would want a different drive shaft if I could stretch enough to run 35's I'm the back even though I'm on 32's for now

The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

I'm somewhat confused by the picture which looks to be a front 3 link with trackbar setup(single upper on the driver side). Is this what you are wanting, or are you wanting an actual 4 link setup (similar to the stock triangulated rear, but with seperate uppers instead of the y-link)?

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

That is my mistake I posted a picture of the front end of the xj I wanted to post picture of the rear end. I was wanting a picture of the 4 link rear to show an example of what I am after

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

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The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

That's basically the same design as the stock triangulated setup, besides 2 seperate axle mounting points. It's definitely doable at stockish wheelbase (.5-1"), but any more stretch you could run into truss to gas tank clearance issues at full bump. What is your reasoning behind wanting to stretch? Are you wanting to actually stretch the rear, or center your tire back in the rear wheelwell? Stretching gets expensive quick. The truss/arms are the cheap and easy part. Gas tank relocation and other clearance issues will always pop up. With that said, if you can do some light fab work and weld, it won't be bad.

For the mounting brackets, you can buy prefab link brackets you can weld wherever you want (ballisticfab, polyperfornance, ruffstuffspecialties, chassisunlimited). For the arms, just get some dom tubing, pick out some joints and threaded bungs and get to work. I actually did a write up on another site about setting control arm length properly, and anther about making your own arms. Pm me if interested. The first thing is are you restoring lost wheelbase from being lifted, or wanting an actual stretch (2+")? Once we determine that I can steer you in the right direction.

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tommudd · **Posted:** Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:38 pm

Centering your rear diff :?:

You do that sitting at whatever height you are at then when fully flexed you will run into issues , we're not dealing with a leaf spring lifted XJ here for example, you've got coils-control arms, in such the rear diff moves in an arc, not straight up and down.
lengthen the control arms then you'll have to be making the wheel wells larger and back further which would be a whole other PITA

The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

By centering your rear diff, you pull the springs and center the bump stop at the lower coil bucket. At full bump you want your jounce to be centered on the lower mount. That is the correct way to set the wheelbase. If your bumpstops are properly set up, your axle will be centered inside the wheelwell every time. This is applicable when setting control arm lengths on adjustable arms. This will also square your axles to the frame. After you roughly center your axles at full bump, you then find a like point on the frame on both sides and measure/fine tune. I found that cross measuring(right front to left rear/right rear to left front) works better. You will often find that when your axle is centered at bump and square with the frame, none of the arms will be the same length (only applicable to adjustable uppers and lowers). You set wheelbase with lowers, and pinion/caster with the uppers.

This works with all heights because when you extend your bumpstops properly, the contact point by the jounce will be at a different point due to arc the axle travels. When you install lift coils, the axle naturally follows the arc of travel. So at 3" over stock, your axle sits closer to the front of the rear wheelwell. The higher the lift the more it shifts due to the length of the arm staying the same... I'll continue

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The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

Here is a reference pic of my tj. All 8 adjustable arms set correctly, and the jounce is perfectly centered at full bump. Here it is at ride height (bent the rock crawler rims, went to stock), tire is perfectly centered in the wheelwell using the method I described.

Notice how the rear tire has moved forward In the wheelwell

The axle is almost at full droop, but if the coils were the same height (as they are extended in the pic) at ride height, the axle would be pulled forwards the same. The only fix for this would be longer arms, but that's a new topic. Longer bumps contact farther down, which would put contact farther towards the rear at full bump. As stated it's going to follow the arc of travel, and the father down the axle is from the fenderwell, the arc brings it farther forwards. Sorry for the long explanation, and you might have already known, but I wanted to explain what I meant in detail.

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

The_dealer wrote:

That's basically the same design as the stock triangulated setup, besides 2 seperate axle mounting points. It's definitely doable at stockish wheelbase (.5-1"), but any more stretch you could run into truss to gas tank clearance issues at full bump. What is your reasoning behind wanting to stretch? Are you wanting to actually stretch the rear, or center your tire back in the rear wheelwell? Stretching gets expensive quick. The truss/arms are the cheap and easy part. Gas tank relocation and other clearance issues will always pop up. With that said, if you can do some light fab work and weld, it won't be bad.

For the mounting brackets, you can buy prefab link brackets you can weld wherever you want (ballisticfab, polyperfornance, ruffstuffspecialties, chassisunlimited). For the arms, just get some dom tubing, pick out some joints and threaded bungs and get to work. I actually did a write up on another site about setting control arm length properly, and anther about making your own arms. Pm me if interested. The first thing is are you restoring lost wheelbase from being lifted, or wanting an actual stretch (2+")? Once we determine that I can steer you in the right direction.

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I am wanting to get the rear end built so when I save up enough money for the sfa I can do the front the right way. SO to be clear at what i am after I should have said with enough adjustablitly to run 35's later. (instead of saying stretch) So should i keep my stock driveshaft then?

The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

I would keep it for now if it's working for you. I'm actually working on doing an sas as well with a rubi d44 I have from my tj. IMO I would go with an sye and double Cardon rear driveshaft. The amount of lift you need in the rear to match the front would be too sketchy for a slip yoke. Not to mention trying to get less than 3° of difference between the output angle and pinion angle. Ultimately its up to you, but I'm going with an sye. I'm also going with the 4 link like you mentioned. It's simple, not having a track bar will be one less clearance issue to deal with. So the answer to your question is yes, as long as you have enough adjustability built into the arms it should be no problem to do it now, and be able to reuse them. Just remember after the sas when you set the pinion angles the uppers will need to be able to be adjusted alot farther out. I would basically set your pinion angle and make them so they are in the middle of their adjustment. Also using a LH thread joint/bung on one end, and a RH on the other(double adjustable) will give you more adjustability vs typical single adjustable arms. Another good thing, with double adjustable you don't have to remove one end to change the length. Just loosen the jamb nuts and turn. Making your arms double adjustable with the shank(s) about halfway in/out, will leave you with plenty of adjustment later. For the brackets check out ballistic fab, chassis unlimited, ruffstuffspecialties, and poly performance. You can buy your brackets and mod/weld them how you want. You can also buy premade truss kits with 4 link mounts. Gen-right sells link kits that's worth checking out as well.

http://www.chassisunlimited.com/product ... kit-b.html

Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

awesome information I and looking I to building my own arms And I'm defiantly going to consider the double adjustability.

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The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

I'll include this as well http://www.wranglerforum.com/f210/how-t ... 87330.html

Have a look at the metalcloak duroflex joints as well. I swear they are the best thing since slide bread. With all of the work of making your own arms, I definitely wouldn't skimp on the joints. My choices are between the duroflex and Johnnie joint, it's really just dependant on where it's going or how it's being used. The track bar is the only place a duroflex joint isn't suitable for.

I used to avoid the double adjustable arms thinking it was just another part that needs that would loosen and need to be checked all the time. I figured i wouldnt change things enough to need to adjust my arms very often. I gave in and ordered a pair of metalcloak double adjustable rear uppers to set my pinion angle after the sye. Not even 10 minutes into the install I was hooked and ordered the other 3 pairs. Having to eat ramen noodles for 2 months because I spent all my money on control arms was worth it.

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

Tmi haha not really I was planning on using the original Johnny joint I'll look into the metalcloak

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The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

Hahaha. It was a figure of speech. Roman noodles= wife pissed off. You really can't go wrong either of those 2. I prefer the df on a dd or anything that will be driven on the street alot. The NVH is noticeably less then the jj. One downside to the df is you will have a slight amount of deflection over a cartridge type joint, but still far less then rubber. Going from factory bushings to df you wouldn't even notice a difference. The downside to them is you have to replace the whole guts.

Are you going with modified tj/lj long arms? Are you planning on a 3 link w/track bar or 4 link w/tb front?

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

I am now looking into getting poly performance's universal rear end and adapting it

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The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

Sweet. They make some nice fab parts, and that will save alot of work. Before all of these companies started mass producing fab brackets, I used to spend countless hours making my own. Glad those days are over. I used some poly p brackets when I did the sas on my bronco ii and it was definitely a good investment, and high quality. Are you going to do a build thread anywhere? I couldn't believe how few kj guys do a build thread . What little I did find (besides tjkj2002's) had broken links and no pics

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

When I sas or when I 4 link the rear end start my build thread. I feel too alike to start one now. Hopefully I can get the rear end 4 linked for the price of getting a link kit or building a link kit with poly p brackets.

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

Looking into buying brackets and building my own links. I have to brackets I am looking to buy or recreate. One is the synergy universal fourlink rear setup. The other artic fabs comparison. I like the synergy one better but they have some minor differences. The synergy one is 10 degree lowers and 25 degree uppers. The artic ones are 10 degree lowers and 35 degree uppers. Does this change the link length? I need to do some reading on witch one to get.

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The_dealer · **Joined:** Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:41 pm **Posts:** 129

The length of the arms will be slightly different but not really enough to choose one over the other. After welding up an artec kit for my buddy's 8.8 swap, I'd have to say you can't go wrong with their stuff. Their stuff is really beefy and great quality. There will always be some grinding and overall fitting to be done but it was very minimal. When I choose something like a one size fits all kit I look at 3 things. Price, thickness of material used, and feedback from guys who have used it. Mainly price is my deciding factor. Most companies that you look at are top notch anyways and the parts are made to be beat on, so it's not like you have to beware of 1/16" thick brackets or anything. After using some stuff from ballistic and chassis unlinited, those tend to be where I always look first.

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Chipppy · **Joined:** Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm **Posts:** 223

Good to hear! I almost don't want to think of brackets either. Welding into the uni body idk if I want quarter inch on thin frame rails. I wanna go with artec because there cheaper but idk I'm a ways off I have time to decide.

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Could I 4 link rear at 3.5in

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