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WHITE the civilian · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:05 pm

"Thread is over now"

My 3.7L KJ is about to die, but I am looking to get a CRD now so I can at least swap my suspension and other goodies for. I found a "local" 2005 CRD for sale on craigslist and have talked with the seller one time so far. I have a few pictures and his add which I'm pasting below.

"This is a 2005 Jeep Liberty Limited. Around 169,000 miles. 2.8L Diesel engine gets 24-27 mpg in the winter with an additive. Anywhere from 25-30 in the summer. Little Diesel engine sounds great/runs great! Tows up to 5000 pounds. Comes with a set of winter tires that have only 1 season on them, they are in great shape, bought them for $540 last year (on the vehicle now also have summer tires for it that are included in the deal). This vehicle does excellent in the ice and snow. Tags good until 2015! Always used Synthetic Royal Purple oil. Garage kept. NADA Value $9,300. Too many cars in my driveway, will sell for $8000. Just put in a new windshield!"

I read the CRD noob guide and understand the timing belt should be replaced as well as a few other things. So I asked the seller if the timing belt had ever been replaced and the response was "no". Here are a few photos.

If this works out I'll be getting the routine maintenance done ASAP
However... do any of you see or know of the likely things that could happen to be wrong with it? Has anyone been burned buying a CRD secondhand?

I am going on a test drive soon, is there anything in particular I should look for since I haven't driven a CRD before? Thanks

Hexus · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:18 pm

It looks alright but you have to remember in these vehicles the most important things are under the hood, not inside the passenger compartment.

I want to see pictures inside the engine compartment, I want to see the MAP sensor, I want to inspect the CAC hoses on BOTH sides. I also want to pull the intake hose and check for the holes I'm almost certain will be there on the bottom of it.

I want to know why the timing belt wasn't done 69k miles ago... I want to know if there is a GDE tune, if the check engine light is on, and I want to have a good look at the exhaust and the frame underneath.

I want to know how many times the EGR and FCV have been replaced.

I want to feel the turbo impeller to see if there's any play.

Timing belt is going to cost you $2k to do if you have a mechanic do it, since you're 169k you're close enough for the 2nd one, let alone the first, and you're going to need the Thermostat and Water pump, no matter what.

I would offer 6k if it runs good. FIRST: Make sure it isn't spewing black smoke when it starts, when you romp the turbo (push the pedal to the floor), and let it run in his driveway for 2 minutes and then shut it off, and open the coolant overflow tank cap to see if there's any back pressure {{bubbles or gas pushing out}}, if there is the head gasket is probably shot. It won't be hot enough that fast to steam/smoke/burn you if it's just been sitting.

Read all the horror stories here so you know what to look for, heed our words!!

WHITE the civilian · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:29 pm

Heeding words has commenced...... I'll take photos of the engine compartment when I get the chance.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:34 pm

Hexus has the right plan, listen to him. Oh, and $2000 for a timing job... Thanks for my new price point!

I have heard of dealers charging upwards of $1500 JUST for labor, and they will whack you another 800-1300 for the parts. IF they know to replace everything that I replace.

FYI: I'm the traveling timing belt mechanic, and I can guarantee that there isn't a mechanic in the country that has touched more CRDs than I have - Over 15 currently and counting.

Where are you located and what is your purchase timeframe? Depending on those, I could add you to the timing belt list for my upcoming trip.

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WHITE the civilian · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:14 pm

I'm I'm anchorage Alaska

brando26 · **Joined:** Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:17 am **Posts:** 15

I bought one that seemed fine... until the low cool light was on.. pressure in the coolant take, warped head, bad gasket, 5k later I replaced everything that came off with the head. Just so I would never have to worry about it.

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WHITE the civilian · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:56 pm

brando26 wrote:

I bought one that seemed fine... until the low cool light was on.. pressure in the coolant take, warped head, bad gasket, 5k later I replaced everything that came off with the head. Just so I would never have to worry about it.

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geordi · **Posted:** Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:19 pm

I see your location now (It doesn't show the left frame on the ipad / iphone app) and unfortunately Alaska is a little outside the radius for this trip.
That said, I wouldn't mind a trip up there, but I don't know if the numbers would work out for you.

Pressure in the coolant tank is something to definitely watch out for. With a COLD engine, open the cap just to ensure there isn't any residual pressure from hot coolant from before. Then start and run the engine for a minute or so, and shut it down again.

There shouldn't be ANY pressure under the coolant cap. If there is - Head gasket leak. Yes, it IS possible to spend about 5 grand on that, especially if you have someone else doing the labor and you replace absolutely everything. Normally that much wouldn't be required however.

It IS about a 12 hour job, and not much fun.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:06 am

Since there are no really effective replacement glow plugs available, I would question owning one of these in Alaska.

DOC

jim_87 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:30 am

I would have a pre-purchase inspection done first. Then if you decide to buy it I would have the timing belt/waterpump changed first, as well as an oil change. That should get you started.

WHITE the civilian · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:35 am

DOC4444 wrote:

Since there are no really effective replacement glow plugs available, I would question owning one of these in Alaska.

DOC

I am very new to Diesel engines, only time I've used something with glow plugs was in the army a little while back. How are no good replacement plugs available?

I asked for more pictures under the hood should be getting those soon.
Edit: I'm in Anchorage AK. The temperature in the winter here isn't so bad in the winter but -20*F is easy to get (fact I've been in -55*F with no wind). This vehicle would also be kept outside with a block heater/battery blanket in those cold months everynight.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:12 pm

GDE has stated that there are not enough $$ in it for any company to develop something that works as well as the OEM Bosch ceramics. Let me put it this way, I live in Boston Massachusetts. I am not sure we will keep ours when we run out of used spare ceramic glow plugs.

DOC

WHITE the civilian · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:43 pm

I have no idea what the issue with using different glow plugs is.. :?:

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:37 pm

WHITE the civilian wrote:

I have no idea what the issue with using different glow plugs is.. :?:

Apparently, the newer plugs that are ceramic jacketed in steel, don't get as hot in the cylinder as the ceramic-only plugs do. This makes the engine hard to start and it runs very very rough for the first 10-15 seconds. People don't like that.

It isn't hurting the engine, but people don't like the sound and the smoke... But apparently they do like the possibility of the ceramic plug mushrooming and shattering into the cylinder, so that the super-hard ceramic bits can grind away at the walls or valve seats.

If you are religious about using an engine heater and battery heater, you shouldn't have any problems with the steel plugs. This is just what needs to be done with these engines. They don't have the higher compression of the TDI ALH engine (99-03) that apparently never needed a block heater and starts just fine with the same metal plugs that Bosch redesigned from the ceramics.

WHITE the civilian · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:55 pm

geordi wrote:

WHITE the civilian wrote:

I have no idea what the issue with using different glow plugs is.. :?:

Apparently, the newer plugs that are ceramic jacketed in steel, don't get as hot in the cylinder as the ceramic-only plugs do. This makes the engine hard to start and it runs very very rough for the first 10-15 seconds. People don't like that.

It isn't hurting the engine, but people don't like the sound and the smoke... But apparently they do like the possibility of the ceramic plug mushrooming and shattering into the cylinder, so that the super-hard ceramic bits can grind away at the walls or valve seats.

If you are religious about using an engine heater and battery heater, you shouldn't have any problems with the steel plugs. This is just what needs to be done with these engines. They don't have the higher compression of the TDI ALH engine (99-03) that apparently never needed a block heater and starts just fine with the same metal plugs that Bosch redesigned from the ceramics.

Doesn't the battery heat up the glow plugs which ignites the fuel?
I also have a brand new Sears branded diehard platinum battery, do those work good in CRD's? I'm not all that handy with vehicles, I can do fluids and elaborate about funny noises not knowing where they originate from. I want a diesel liberty so badly, getting harder to come by and appear to be going up in value (at least to those who know more than the average bear about them) just like old westfalia's.

Also geordi, are you the tommudd of CRD's?

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:24 pm

At -20F and below, I do not like your chances of starting at all if the block heater is not working and you have any of the steel glow plugs. However, to at least give you a fighting chance, get the Mobil 1 0W-40 turbo diesel oil Mobil only sells in Canada.

DOC

papaindigo · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Cold starting a diesel, not talking about big rigs, in really cold weather, say 10F on down can be an issue. On the CRD what to do, although I'll defer to folks north of me:
1. high quality good condition battery. I'm partial to AGM. As to specs the OEM Red Top was a Group 34R (terminals reversed) 700 CCA and some battery places have been known to claim that only the current Mopar equivalent will work. In point of fact any Group 34 (terminals not reversed) will work so long as there is enough reach in the terminal wires to work (on mine the + was just fine but I had to very slightly bend the end of the - to fit). The main spec to look at is CCA and I'd go as close to 800CCA as possible or over if you can (795-850 is fine).
2. cold and low charge is the enemy of batteries so keep it fully charged and I'd suggest at least a battery blanket if not a battery warmer.
3. winter diesel is obvious but go a bit further and add a good quality diesel anti-gel treatment.
4. garage storage is ideal but if not a functional block heater plugged in will do. In less extreme cold areas some put their block heater on a timer to come on ca. 2 hrs before start. In your case leave it plugged in overnight, doesn't pull much power. Replacement block heater cord and heater itself are easy to come by and not that expensive.
5. Doc4444 is on point about oil weight. If you cannot get what he says go for the same weight but be sure it's a diesel spec oil.
6. the OEM 7v ceramics are apparently a bit hotter than either the Mopar 5v steel replacements (requires an ECU reflash) or the drop in 7v Italian ones. The down side of the OEM 7v ceramics is they can loose small pieces, without triggering a CEL, which can damage the engine and they can fail loosing upto the entire tip, with a CEL, which has a high chance of damaging the engine.
7. remember when you first crank up it may run rough for the first minute or so and that the drive line/tranny fluids are also cold so drive gently for the first little bit. Even down here if it hits 20F my tranny fluid takes like 5 miles to get warm enough for overdrive to work right.

Things to check are noted in other posts to which I would add:
1. that coolant pressure under the radiator cap needs to be done starting with a cold engine
2. check with GDE on #s to look for but Keith has said if you can get a MAF reading, a DCJ dealer can do one, at idle, IIRC, that can tell you if the rockers are likely ok or not.

JeepCoMj · **Joined:** Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:54 pm **Posts:** 161

Royal purple is immediate dont buy in my book...then add lack of timing belt change, and u can bet your butt the valvetrain is sooted like a mofo, egr is certainly active. Run.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:54 pm

I hate to say it, but if doing all your own engine maintenance is not something you are comfortable with, and doing your own repairs is completely foreign....

This is not the vehicle for you.

These Jeeps require specific techniques (which you can learn from here, certainly) but the engine WILL require lots of wrenching at some point sooner or later. This is not a Toyota or a Honda that will run through decades of neglect. Think of this vehicle as your Italian girlfriend or mistress. She is very pretty and fun to be around when she is happy... But when she gets unhappy and breaks things, it WILL be very expensive in both time and parts to get her happy again.

It helps to have the desire to do your own mechanic work (because nobody knows doodly about these engines!) and have a deep wallet.

If this is not describing you, it may be a better purchase to look into a Ford Superduty or anything with a Cummins for diesel, or Ford or Chevy gasser trucks.

Greenwing7 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:30 am

I'm in anchorage too but my CRD jeep isn't. I would go over this vehicle with a fine tooth comb. Like others have stated. If the EGR hasn't been disabled I would imagine a lot of things will need done STAT. Rockers, timing belt, 169k on a turbo is a lot for such a high performance part. Mine had new rockers and rebuilt top end with practically new turbo. 118k on drivetrain and I gave 9k. I looked for almost a year before I found the right deal. Be very willing to walk if the price isn't right or if the maintenance is suspect. Also check to see that the engine is cold before you start it up. If I can't start it cold for a test personally I won't but it till I can try that.
It will cost a little more to maintain and no one knows anything about working on them but they sure are fun and one of a kind vehicles. :lol:

We are driving a white wk2 altitude edition with TX plates if ya see us around town.

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