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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:32 pm 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
DREDnot wrote:
Using the argument of dead kids and insurance...they will say hacked. I'm sure its fine.

Insurance inspected and approved safe.

Nope they assumed the risk of insuring it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Cherrie 274 wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
DREDnot wrote:
Using the argument of dead kids and insurance...they will say hacked. I'm sure its fine.

Insurance inspected and approved safe.

Nope they assumed the risk of insuring it.

No it actually was inspected,tested,and approved safe for public street use.Similar procedure used for engine swap approval here in CO.


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 Post subject: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:29 pm 
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That still isn't Nader approved. It only passed a minimum requirement for use on public roads. If it was tested it would be crumpled and the test dummy would tell if it was "safe".
You did it right, but if you ever were in a accident the other party could always point to the mods. Your insurance company was willing to assume that risk that a modified vehicle brings.They then made sure it met the state minimum. Great that you made sure you'd have coverage.
Even lifting/lower a vehicle makes changes to the Federal mandated safety. Remember when trucks could drive over little cars? Adding a plow changes insurance to, I bought one truck with a plow package from manufacture. I added one aftermarket- guess which one raised my insurance- the risk more.
After using the Nader reference I wonder how many know who that is.
Now after the winter we had I'm wondering how many of those plow trucks I've seen were insured - I just opened my own can of worms.


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:00 pm 
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Nadar - yeah the guy that got George Bush elected.

I had a 65 Corvair - it was a fun little car - needed more horsepower


of the 'not Nadar approved' the same is true of all lifted Jeeps - actually - if you check you his history - it's also true of all Jeeps.


I don't approve of him - don't care if he approves of me.

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:06 pm 
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Yes a dirty word to me too. We had a friend /customer that hid his in our barn!


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:12 pm 
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Cherrie 274 wrote:
That still isn't Nader approved. It only passed a minimum requirement for use on public roads. If it was tested it would be crumpled and the test dummy would tell if it was "safe".
You did it right, but if you ever were in a accident the other party could always point to the mods. Your insurance company was willing to assume that risk that a modified vehicle brings.They then made sure it met the state minimum. Great that you made sure you'd have coverage.
Even lifting/lower a vehicle makes changes to the Federal mandated safety. Remember when trucks could drive over little cars? Adding a plow changes insurance to, I bought one truck with a plow package from manufacture. I added one aftermarket- guess which one raised my insurance- the risk more.
After using the Nader reference I wonder how many know who that is.
Now after the winter we had I'm wondering how many of those plow trucks I've seen were insured - I just opened my own can of worms.

Well they stated that since the unibody was not in anyway effected(cut up and re-welded) that the crash characteristics did not change which nobody could use against me in a lawsuit.They did state the added bracing would actually increase the odds of survival.The ARB did not effect the OE front crumple zone and has it's own crumple zone so a added benefit.The rear RL bumper mounts in the same fashion as a OE hitch so no change in the rear crumple zone.The rock rails they stated would actually add protection to side impacts that would far exceed mandatory side crash tests.Had it scaled also and the COG is actually 1/2" lower then a stock KJ.They did balk at the no rear swaybar but after I showed them how the OE swaybar attaches they agreed it was useless also and must have been a after-thought by Chrysler by how it was attached.The SRS was not effected,no ABS so no worry there,and the seat belts worked properly and not modified in anyway.


I know the "Nader" reference.


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:28 pm 
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Yes no doubt you made sure you'd be covered. And they made sure it was a assumable risk.
You not only are protecting yourself from lawsuits you actual are protecting another party in case of an accident.
I knew you'd know the Nader.


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:08 pm 
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The question was if anyone had done this and what it was like to run a KK like this offroad.

I am not sure why KJ guys are looking or even commenting on this post. Don't get upset but I'm not looking at KJ posts.

I asked this so that I can make my KK a more capable offroad vehicle. I am a member of a serious offroad group where I live, but sadly there are no other KKs in the group. That is why I am a member of LOSTJEEPS and why I post on the KK side of this website, I own a KK. I thought this group was designed to push our Liberty's and for letting each other know what works and doesn't.

I'm not asking how it drives on the road or if it will void my insurance. I wanted to ask more than one person (that owns a KK and has tried this) if they have disco'd the sway bars front and or back, COME ON GUYS!!!! I thought this was a site for 4X4s and how to make them better offroad vehicles.

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:43 pm 
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hydenphoto wrote:
The question was if anyone had done this and what it was like to run a KK like this offroad.

I am not sure why KJ guys are looking or even commenting on this post. Don't get upset but I'm not looking at KJ posts.

I asked this so that I can make my KK a more capable offroad vehicle. I am a member of a serious offroad group where I live, but sadly there are no other KKs in the group. That is why I am a member of LOSTJEEPS and why I post on the KK side of this website, I own a KK. I thought this group was designed to push our Liberty's and for letting each other know what works and doesn't.

I'm not asking how it drives on the road or if it will void my insurance. I wanted to ask more than one person (that owns a KK and has tried this) if they have disco'd the sway bars front and or back, COME ON GUYS!!!! I thought this was a site for 4X4s and how to make them better offroad vehicles.

The front ends of the KK and KJ are the same so what goes for one will go for the other.The rear is the only difference.

The ? is do you want max flex or useful flex?


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:52 pm 
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:ALONE:

Nearest I can tell, I'm the only one who has run my kk disco'd (and lived to tell about it?) If there be another, speak up.

Sorry , bro

If you can find, make, or adapt some Q.D's , it will add a slight amount of articulation to be disconnected.

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 12:11 am 
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tjkj2002 wrote:
hydenphoto wrote:
The question was if anyone had done this and what it was like to run a KK like this offroad.

I am not sure why KJ guys are looking or even commenting on this post. Don't get upset but I'm not looking at KJ posts.

I asked this so that I can make my KK a more capable offroad vehicle. I am a member of a serious offroad group where I live, but sadly there are no other KKs in the group. That is why I am a member of LOSTJEEPS and why I post on the KK side of this website, I own a KK. I thought this group was designed to push our Liberty's and for letting each other know what works and doesn't.

I'm not asking how it drives on the road or if it will void my insurance. I wanted to ask more than one person (that owns a KK and has tried this) if they have disco'd the sway bars front and or back, COME ON GUYS!!!! I thought this was a site for 4X4s and how to make them better offroad vehicles.

The front ends of the KK and KJ are the same so what goes for one will go for the other.The rear is the only difference.

The ? is do you want max flex or useful flex?


Both, is that too greedy, LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:19 am 
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Ive run disco'd many times and find it performs better offroad


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:21 am 
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When i did my 4wd training they always said put the drivers wheel over the obstacle, so to help that little bit with front left lift i disco the left link only. It also saves time and is very easy to do at a trail head, two bolts and you're done. Ive got the engine skid so its not really practical to take the bar out anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:30 am 
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Quoted from another forum,states TJ but applies to all vehicles offroad.Also states the advantages of the Currie AntiRock but still puts how a swaybar helps more offroad then disco'd.

Quote:
Often in discussions and various threads here on Jeepforum.com there are quesions of a good swaybar disconnect system or methods to develop the maximum flexibility out of the TJ's suspension system. Invariably, someone in these threads will mention the Anti-rock offroad swaybar which is then followed by questions about what is it, how does it work, and which develops "more flex." This post is an attempt to explain the idea that there is a difference between "Maximum Articulation" and "Useful Flex" as it pertains to offroad situations and how this relates to the Anti-rock and typical quick-disconnect systems.

I will tell you right off the bat that you will develop more "maximum flex" with any of the quick disconnets than you will with the Anti-rock. But how useful will that maximum flex be? Bear with me . . .

Maximum Articulation
There are some Jeepers that hold the contention that all flex is not created equal. That there is "maximum flex" and there is "useful flex." Maximum flex or articulation is just what it sounds like. Just how much you can completely flex out your particular suspension setup. Max flex will give great RTI numbers and really great pix of Jeeps with tires high in the air and people will say "holy snot, look at that." The quick disconnects are great with developing maximum flex since they completely disconnect the swaybar from the axle.

Sometimes you'll see pictures of Jeeps so flexed out that the springs actually have no load on them and in fact may drop down from the upper spring perch. This is were we get into the idea of "useful flex." When a tire can droop so much that the spring unseats there isn't much weight on the tire. Without the weight there won't be much taction from the drooped tire. In this situation one has to ask what is the practical difference between this and having a tire lifted in the air from a traction stand point?

Useful Flex
So the idea of "useful flex" is introduced. And that is the point at which you can flex out and still get power down to the ground with enough traction. Unfortunately, this is much more difficult to pinpoint because it will depend on many factors such as ground surface conditions, tires, traction aiding devices, specific suspension setup, load distribution, and perhaps other factors. John Currie, who's won many rock-crawling competitions and has a good reputation with the community for thoughtful designs and solutions, approaches the flex issue from the "useful flex" stand point with the Anti-rock.

Anti-rock
The Anti-rock is an anti-swaybar specifically design for off-road driving and offroad conditions. Currie carefully engineered the swaybar to balance flexibility with chassis control. It works with the rear swaybar and keeps both front and rear swaybars connected at all times to evenly distribute forces between the front and rear axles aiding traction by keeping the weight on the tires. While much softer than the stock bar the Anti-rock also helps control body sway and lean off-road making side-slope and off-camber situations much less trecherous to negotiate.

I was surprised at the difference in off-road ride after the Anti-rock installation. The Tj felt like it just melted over the terrain. When I'd approach holes, ruts, and drop offs I would expect the TJ to shift and sway toward the depression. Not so. The tire would drop into the hole in a controled way and the chassis remained surprisingly level, balanced between front and rear axles. And the traction difference is noticable, too, especially since I have open diff's at each end. I met guys on the trail who said "oh you'll definitely need a locker to get up that hill, if you have problems, just wait for us." But the TJ would just scramble right up with no hint of any traction problems.

Besides the handling benefits there is also the ease of use. Once the Anti-rock is set up you just leave it alone. The only reason to stop at the trail head is to air-down tires. . . otherwise just roll onto the trail and roll off. No pulling pins or tying the swaybar out of the way. Likewise, when you're coming off the trail you don't have to get under a muddy Jeep and hook things back up in the rain and muck or whatever you just wheeled through. No rocking the Jeep back and forth to line-up pin holes or anything. It simply works very transparently and you forget it's on there.

Despite the added control, the Anti-rock does allow a surprising amount of articulation. In one rockcrawler.com article the author quantifies the difference between fully disconnecting the swaybar and running the Anti-rock: •33.25" fully disconnected (20* RTI = 1050)
•32.00" loosest Anti-rock setting (20* RTI = 1011)
•31.25" firmest Anti-rock setting (20* RTI = 987)
As you can see, the "maximum articulation" is developed by fully disco'ing the swaybar but the Anti-rock still allows for significant flex while providing the handling benefits. Even at the firmest setting the you only give up 6% of your total flex for all the benefit. And at the looses setting? Less than 4%

The Anti-rock isn't cheap at nearly $300. However, if anyone is considering the $100 JKS or Teraflex quick discos then they owe it to themselves to look into the Anti-rock. Honestly, after runnning with this mod for the last 6 months I would highly recommend it to anyone as it's one of my favorite mods. Especially since you can keep it with your TJ if you upgrade suspension systems and axles.




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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:34 am 
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forgot to mention that the track bar also plays a roll in how much drop and usable flex you can get.
getting an adjustable track bar and longer way bars links can actually improve flex traction.


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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:18 pm 
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Ok so if I decide to get disconnected how much travel will I get? No lift.

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:30 pm 
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hydenphoto wrote:
Ok so if I decide to get disconnected how much travel will I get? No lift.


At least for me disconnecting the front sway bar does nothing. The lowest my suspension will go is to the point of the A-arm hitting the spring. Disconnecting the front sway bar may give you a slightly larger differential between drivers and passenger side. How much? Hard to say depending on your suspension set up. I think it's pointless to disco the front

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:16 am 
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Ok I was talking with a few people about this and even if you didn't gain more drop wouldn't disconnecting the front sway bar allow the independent suspension to work more independently? Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:24 am 
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hydenphoto wrote:
Ok I was talking with a few people about this and even if you didn't gain more drop wouldn't disconnecting the front sway bar allow the independent suspension to work more independently? Thoughts?


I run discso on the front with no sway bar in the back, and from my last trip to the rubicon for my KK's test I found that I like the front disconnected, from when the front was connected it felt like my KK wanted to lean more and when I disconnected the front and would do the same part of the trail my KK didn't seem like it wanted to lean as much and stayed more straight up.

As for "useful flex" I had no traction problems even without deflating my tires. (Didn't slip once)

I drove around for a little bit on the road with no sway bars and I didn't like the feel while on the road so I say that y I u should at least have discos connected while driving, but I don't feel any difference with or without the rear.

Just note I am a little bit wider then stock due to my back set of my tires I think I'm like 3" wider.

But still drive accordingly, if your disco'd between trails you shouldn't be going full speed.

And I definitely won't be surprised that the next response will be a KJ owner telling me how I'm wrong when what I said is just an opinion.

Hope this helps KK drivers

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Last edited by JeepMonkey190 on Wed Jul 09, 2014 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Sway Bars annyone run with them disconnected?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:14 am 
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Thanks great info! I would love to lean less on the trail. Almost tipped it last weekend on a trail.

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