Maybe another torque converter

Guest · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 9:01 am

RFCRD wrote:

greiswig wrote:

Interesting...is someone keeping records of tranny build dates for these known failures? I took mine in to the dealer yesterday for the tranny filter change/flush TSB, and they said it didn't apply to my vehicle. Their read on the TSB was that since my tranny build date was March 4, 2005, that falls "between the two" date ranges. The TSB gives two sets of dates, and my build is between the two sets. My read of the TSB was that if it falls between within either given range, or between them.

Wondering how many got the TSB done and the torque converter or transmission came apart anyways? There is something seriously wrong with this whole situation. I'm to the point where I soft toe the accellerator to make sure the transmission is actually going to grab a gear before pushing this rig.

My shuddering is getting worse and I suspect it's all part of the TQ failures going on. I made an appointment to have my CRD looked at, again, this coming Friday.

Between the Transmission and the EGR stuff it's getting hard to keep on top of this Jeep with regards to proactive maintenance.

pipefactory · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 5:46 pm

Just came back from dealer. They said it threw a speed sensor code and reset itself. Nothing about the converter or trans. All that noise at the bellhousing I have to believe something is wrong in that area.

urchindog · **Joined:** Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:41 pm **Posts:** 30

when I had my dodge cummins at 130,000 I had the trans rebuilt / improved by a company called DTT transmissions, heavy duty torque conv, valve body, clutches , band etc. wow...what a differance. For curriosities sake I contacted them and another aftermarket co. called Suncoast in fl. .... no one is messing with the jeep CRD unit. Wish they did, probably not enough CRD's to make it worth their time.

Bryan

RFCRD · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 10:37 pm

pipefactory wrote:

Just came back from dealer. They said it threw a speed sensor code and reset itself. Nothing about the converter or trans. All that noise at the bellhousing I have to believe something is wrong in that area.

You should read the torque converter repalcement TSB 21-009-06. Very specific about noise, referred to it as "torque converter rattle" DC knows what is going on here.

greiswig · **Posted:** Mon May 22, 2006 11:56 pm

urchindog wrote:

when I had my dodge cummins at 130,000 I had the trans rebuilt / improved by a company called DTT transmissions, heavy duty torque conv, valve body, clutches , band etc. wow...what a differance. For curriosities sake I contacted them and another aftermarket co. called Suncoast in fl. .... no one is messing with the jeep CRD unit. Wish they did, probably not enough CRD's to make it worth their time.

Bryan

I don't know what other vehicles run this tranny, but I think there are a number of other Dodges, etc. I would think that arming aftermarketers with that knowledge might make them more interested...

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 1:18 am

pipefactory-
Mine threw the speed sensor code also. You have a Predator installed also? Mine did it two days after Predator install and they replaced the PCM. I find the Predator will make the shudder very, very bad in mine. Take it off and you can barely feel it. What the hell does the Predator modify?? Whatever it modifies seems to be the source of my shuddering. I doubt it's too much power because it only does it when I let off the fuel. I'm thinking of installing it again and running it until something gives. Considering how bad it shudders when the Predator is on it shouldn't take long. Hey- maybe I can borrow it to everyone so we can all get new tranny's!!

pipefactory · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 6:37 am

onthehunt wrote:

pipefactory-
Mine threw the speed sensor code also. You have a Predator installed also? Mine did it two days after Predator install and they replaced the PCM. I find the Predator will make the shudder very, very bad in mine. Take it off and you can barely feel it. What the hell does the Predator modify?? Whatever it modifies seems to be the source of my shuddering. I doubt it's too much power because it only does it when I let off the fuel. I'm thinking of installing it again and running it until something gives. Considering how bad it shudders when the Predator is on it shouldn't take long. Hey- maybe I can borrow it to everyone so we can all get new tranny's!!

I noticed that when I was running the Predator, my CRD would jerk and stumble when I let off after passing someone. It didn't do it when I first installed it. That started about 1000 miles after. Also, when the CRD threw the code I had the switch shut off. I had to use the Predator to limp the CRD to my destination as it didn't have enough power on it's own.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 7:29 am

pipefactory wrote:

Just came back from dealer. They said it threw a speed sensor code and reset itself. Nothing about the converter or trans. All that noise at the bellhousing I have to believe something is wrong in that area.

Pipefactory,

Are you getting anywhere with the dealer on actually fixing this (like the clanking sound of tools working)?

cerich · **Posted:** Tue May 23, 2006 8:21 am

pipefactory wrote:

Just came back from dealer. They said it threw a speed sensor code and reset itself. Nothing about the converter or trans. All that noise at the bellhousing I have to believe something is wrong in that area.

Find TSB 21-009-06, you have the symptons. It's not like DC doesn't know there is a problem.

tvine · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:55 pm

At only 1,302 miles my 2006 CRD's torque converter failed while idling at a stop light. It just rattled and would not move at all. No indications of a problem before the failure. I reved it to 2,200 to see if I could get to move enough to get it out of the traffic lane and something locked hard in the converter stopping the engine in a milesecond. The Jeep never moved. Upon dissassembly the dealer found that the four bolts that attach the torque converter to the flywheel had sheared and the through holes in the flywheel were elongated. I am a Structural Engineer and have done failure analysis in the past so I did a calculation to see what force was required to break the bolts and damage the flywheel in this way. The answer is about 10,000 LBS for both conditions (give or take a thousand pounds). This equates to about 20,000 FT-LBS of torque applied to the end of the crank. This can't be good! I am working with DC through the Dealer to determine what the potential damage to the engine and transmission is. So far the only answer I have thus far is that "it runs ok now". I bought the CRD with the expectation of putting 300,000 miles on it. This is not a good start.

Has anyone else had a similar failure?

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:05 pm

tvine wrote:

Upon dissassembly the dealer found that the four bolts that attach the torque converter to the flywheel had sheared and the through holes in the flywheel were elongated. I am a Structural Engineer and have done failure analysis in the past so I did a calculation to see what force was required to break the bolts and damage the flywheel in this way.

Did you get a good look at the pieces? Only 4 bolts holding the torque converter to the flywheel??? Every diesel engine/Allison combo I had to split apart had atleast 20 bolts and was a PITA to remove each through the starter or access hole in the back of the flywheel housing. Reinstall was worse, torque wrench and locktite one at a time then bar it over and do the next. I know those were big engines but still the concept is the same, spread the stress.

TDI4BY · **Joined:** Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:56 pm **Posts:** 644

RFCRD wrote:

tvine wrote:

Upon dissassembly the dealer found that the four bolts that attach the torque converter to the flywheel had sheared and the through holes in the flywheel were elongated. I am a Structural Engineer and have done failure analysis in the past so I did a calculation to see what force was required to break the bolts and damage the flywheel in this way.

Did you get a good look at the pieces? Only 4 bolts holding the torque converter to the flywheel??? Every diesel engine/Allison combo I had to split apart had atleast 20 bolts and was a PITA to remove each through the starter or access hole in the back of the flywheel housing. Reinstall was worse, torque wrench and locktite one at a time then bar it over and do the next. I know those were big engines but still the concept is the same, spread the stress.

I put an aftermarket converter in my 03 Cummins and there were only 5 or 6 bolts.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:43 pm

TDI4BY wrote:

RFCRD wrote:

tvine wrote:

Upon dissassembly the dealer found that the four bolts that attach the torque converter to the flywheel had sheared and the through holes in the flywheel were elongated. I am a Structural Engineer and have done failure analysis in the past so I did a calculation to see what force was required to break the bolts and damage the flywheel in this way.

Did you get a good look at the pieces? Only 4 bolts holding the torque converter to the flywheel??? Every diesel engine/Allison combo I had to split apart had atleast 20 bolts and was a PITA to remove each through the starter or access hole in the back of the flywheel housing. Reinstall was worse, torque wrench and locktite one at a time then bar it over and do the next. I know those were big engines but still the concept is the same, spread the stress.

I put an aftermarket converter in my 03 Cummins and there were only 5 or 6 bolts.

I guess it's not fair to compare a 300 ft-lb rig to a 1500 ft-lb rig. 4 bolts still seem light.

tvine · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:13 am

I did get a very good look and it has four bolts, or more correctly eight halves.

RFCRD · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:24 am

tvine wrote:

I did get a very good look and it has four bolts, or more correctly eight halves.

I take it you are looking at a new flywheel too?

tvine · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:07 am

Yes, a new flywheel was installed. The four holes were elongated about 1/8"

kjfishman · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:27 pm

pipefactory wrote:

Thought I was going to have to shoot my CRD last night to put it out of it's misery. Driving home after a gig at 60 mph the Jeep made a hard jerk then came out of overdrive then the engine light came on, drove another mile then it started to slow down. Got to the off ramp and went to turn and it could barely pull itself off the ramp. While it was idling it was clanking real loud at the back of the engine. I shut it off and took off my Predator thinking I was going to call the 800 # for a tow to the dealership then after about 5 minutes I started it and it was like normal again but still had the engine light on. I'm dropping it off Monday. Any clues?

So was your trans built in the window that was posted in the wrong filters TSB?

Tom_with_a_Dream · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:09 pm

AllJeep,

Nice Signature. I am not a Linux guy but I understand the appeal. On a side note (and COMPLETELY unrelated to Jeeps), I heard recently that the first virus that infects Macs is out now...

My '05 CRD is coming up on three weeks in the shop for a new TC, TC Pump, and a tranny rebuild, etc. Excellent dealer service though, expecially when you consider that I did not even buy from them. I do all my shopping there now... Might even trade my '05 for a '06 if the trans can't get right.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:54 pm

tvine.

What's the build date on your 06? :?:

tvine · Build date March 8, 2006

Build date March 8, 2006

Maybe another torque converter

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