Liberty KK R&P

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:09 pm

I installed Sky Jackers 2.5" lift kit. it turned out to lift my front 4 inches and my rear 3 inches. drive shaft angles seem ok. but my main question was is their any kit or manufacturer that produces a Rack and Pinion mount for a steering dampener. the larger tires I had installed 2 weeks ago just grab these potholes here in Pennsylvania. Sky Jacker had failed to mention that a stabilizer would be recommended for comfortable steering. as well as the tie rod is to low. when at full lock the tie rod is pushed down and pulls the front end down with it. the knuckles are rubbing somehow on the lower control arm.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:18 pm

Just wanted to get the obvious out of the way first: before a new alignment, the Jeep will drive all squirrely. You did get it aligned after putting on the lift, right?

Take a tape measure and measure from the center of the wheel up to the bottom of the front fender flare. Since the stock distance is about 18 inches, if you are at 4 inches of lift you should be at 22 in the front. That is too high to go without modified upper control arms, but the stock arms should still be ok at 2-2.5 inches of lift. If you are indeed up at 4 inches, that could explain the contact and the poor alignment.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:32 pm

lfhoward wrote:

Just wanted to get the obvious out of the way first: before a new alignment, the Jeep will drive all squirrely. You did get it aligned after putting on the lift, right?

Take a tape measure and measure from the center of the wheel up to the bottom of the front fender flare. Since the stock distance is about 18 inches, if you are at 4 inches of lift you should be at 22 in the front. That is too high to go without modified upper control arms, but the stock arms should still be ok at 2-2.5 inches of lift. If you are indeed up at 4 inches, that could explain the contact and the poor alignment.

Yes, the front end was aligned along with the new tires. I measured it some odd way for some reason. I measured from the ground to the top of the fender and it was 44 in the front and 43 in the rear. the jeep rides level at these goofy measurements I had taken. would you know of any product that could be frankensteined to the tie rods?

lfhoward · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:50 pm

You really need to measure from the center of the wheel to the fender, because the distance to the ground is affected by your tire size. When you go out to measure the lift height, snap a few pics of your front suspension showing the angles of the control arm, cv, tie rod, etc. and we can give you a better idea if we see something that is not right. I hate to say it but not many on here run or recommend spacer-style lifts because of the issues they can cause. But maybe there is something here that can be fixed right away.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:41 pm

Skyjacker is all spring. It's not really preferred because it uses the same spring rate as stock.

lfhoward is right though, 18" in front and 19" in back is stock height for a new KK. Measure from the center of hub to the flare. That's the only way to know how much lift you actually have. Reason being, if you went to a 31" tire from the stock 29" you gained an inch of lift because of the tire and will throw off measurements. Anything over about 3" of lift will need a-arms.

Anyways, they don't make steering stabilizers for R&Ps. Full lock changes how all of our KKs sit, lifted or not. We drag tires when turing at full lock.

Take pics and lets see what you're working with.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:08 pm

Bmxer524 wrote:

Skyjacker is all spring.

Oops, my bad. Thanks, Bmxer.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:25 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

I installed Sky Jackers 2.5" lift kit. it turned out to lift my front 4 inches and my rear 3 inches. drive shaft angles seem ok. but my main question was is their any kit or manufacturer that produces a Rack and Pinion mount for a steering dampener. the larger tires I had installed 2 weeks ago just grab these potholes here in Pennsylvania. Sky Jacker had failed to mention that a stabilizer would be recommended for comfortable steering. as well as the tie rod is to low. when at full lock the tie rod is pushed down and pulls the front end down with it. the knuckles are rubbing somehow on the lower control arm.

A SS will do nothing you want it to do,not what it's for.A correct SFA build does not need one for it's intended purpose and 100% pointless for IFS.

Oh and yes I run a SS(my KJ is SFA's),I don't need it but have it there to actually increase resistance in the steering since the old worn steering box is 100% quicker then the R&P gear it replaced.To easy to over correct at highway speeds,much better when I added a SS to make the steering "stiffer".

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:23 am

Sounds like you have some issues that are not common when lifted
*If aligned correctly should be no unusual steering etc on the highway
**Also shouldn't have any contact of the knuckles on the LCAs.
***Like mentioned "true" measurements middle of wheel to bottom of flare
****Did you add anything to the lift such as a clevis or top plate
*****Are you positive the alignment was done right
******Did you or someone else actually install the lift

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:49 pm

tommudd wrote:

Sounds like you have some issues that are not common when lifted
*If aligned correctly should be no unusual steering etc on the highway
**Also shouldn't have any contact of the knuckles on the LCAs.
***Like mentioned "true" measurements middle of wheel to bottom of flare
****Did you add anything to the lift such as a clevis or top plate
*****Are you positive the alignment was done right
******Did you or someone else actually install the lift

when the tires were installed I had them align the front end to what I assume is factory spec angles. 21 1/4" in the front and 20 1/4" in the rear. I had failed to mention in this post that the kit I am using is a spacer not springs. the suspension is all stock except the spacers. the alignment was done at a reputable shop near me. and the kit was installed by my buddy and I, so I oversaw all of the installation. we have torn the front apart 3 times so far within a month. the rear is fine, no rattling, no rubbing (so far). as far as the rattling in the front goes, I suspect its the shocks on the struts that are loose (some how).

why does most of the members here not use skyjacker, im curious to know why!

I just wish sky jacker had noted the possible issues with the kit. and I am obviously newer to modifying jeeps.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:02 pm

here are the most recent photos of my Jeep.

http://ryantechtips.wix.com/rtphotography#!car/c1vm

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:08 pm

So you reused the stock shocks as well as the stock springs?
It does appear you have about 3.25 inches of lift which in most cases should not be too much of an issue. You are in the range that aftermarket UCAs from jeepinbyal are needed though and would make alignments easier
Why don't most use Skyjacker well for one the full spring kit is the same rating as stock, so it will sag a lot quicker that OME or Ironman setups.
As far as spacer lifts, well with used stock springs and shocks you are never going to get the better ride/ handling or overall quality that you do with a full spring from OME or Ironman.
As you have already found out it seems ( almost) every spacer lit installed there are issues with either noises/ rougher ride/ poor handling and most remove them within a very few months.
I would say that possibly you didn't get something torqued correctly upon install . But if you have had it apart 3 times you should of found it by now.
IF possible could you post some photos ? That may help in identifying a problem

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:13 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

here are the most recent photos of my Jeep.

http://ryantechtips.wix.com/rtphotography#!car/c1vm

The picture you show of the LCA/ spindle concerns me since it almost seems like the LBJ is allowing it to move. When you turn all the way it should hit in one spot , not be rubbing up and down like it seems it is. Have you checked the ball joints really good ?

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

The knuckle rubbing is the driving at full lock, the knuckle braces against the LCA. You got 3.25" on the front so you have maxed out your stock shocks with out a doubt (mine were too on my old Daystar, same components just a different name). Check between your clevis and spring perch on your front struts to see if there is a gap (I.E. the "clevis lift") if so there's your extra lift.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 1:24 pm

tommudd wrote:

PALiftedKK wrote:

here are the most recent photos of my Jeep.

http://ryantechtips.wix.com/rtphotography#!car/c1vm

The picture you show of the LCA/ spindle concerns me since it almost seems like the LBJ is allowing it to move. When you turn all the way it should hit in one spot , not be rubbing up and down like it seems it is. Have you checked the ball joints really good ?

I have not taken the knuckles off and inspected the lower ball joints. ill take a look later on this week for the 4th time taking it apart. im hoping the lbj is not shot. I know that when at full lock the car pulls down, so that should really only be the only time the knuckle rubs on the lca correct?

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:36 pm

NAMoulton1 wrote:

The knuckle rubbing is the driving at full lock, the knuckle braces against the LCA. You got 3.25" on the front so you have maxed out your stock shocks with out a doubt (mine were too on my old Daystar, same components just a different name). Check between your clevis and spring perch on your front struts to see if there is a gap (I.E. the "clevis lift") if so there's your extra lift.

Sure there is going to be rubbing ( between spindle and LCA ) at full lock but never seen one that had up and down movement like that before.
Agree his stock shocks have to be bad plus the fact a spacer lift maxes them out. Part of the reason so many have their front shocks blow out when using a spacer lift

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

tommudd wrote:

Sure there is going to be rubbing ( between spindle and LCA ) at full lock but never seen one that had up and down movement like that before.
Agree his stock shocks have to be bad plus the fact a spacer lift maxes them out. Part of the reason so many have their front shocks blow out when using a spacer lift

I know this all too well after my Daystar. After two months my shocks were dead and it was scaring the s!@# out of my passengers when hitting bumps and the tire bounces a couple a times and sounds like it's going to fall off...

The rubbing might be caused when he is turning and because of his high lift his camber isn't quite up to par and causing his wheel to "hop" as if in 4WD. Mine did that until I got an alignment.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:08 pm

NAMoulton1 wrote:

tommudd wrote:

Sure there is going to be rubbing ( between spindle and LCA ) at full lock but never seen one that had up and down movement like that before.
Agree his stock shocks have to be bad plus the fact a spacer lift maxes them out. Part of the reason so many have their front shocks blow out when using a spacer lift

I know this all too well after my Daystar. After two months my shocks were dead and it was scaring the s!@# out of my passengers when hitting bumps and the tire bounces a couple a times and sounds like it's going to fall off...

The rubbing might be caused when he is turning and because of his high lift his camber isn't quite up to par and causing his wheel to "hop" as if in 4WD. Mine did that until I got an alignment.

as mentioned above, the alignment was done by a reputable shop, and the alignment was probably put to factory spec. am I missing something? is there any difference with factory alignment spec versus them just aligning it? im pretty confused about that part.

my jeep has only been off road for, lets say 100 or less miles before the lift, and currently has under 22k miles on it. the lift was installed at 21k miles.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:27 pm

PALiftedKK wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

tommudd wrote:

Sure there is going to be rubbing ( between spindle and LCA ) at full lock but never seen one that had up and down movement like that before.
Agree his stock shocks have to be bad plus the fact a spacer lift maxes them out. Part of the reason so many have their front shocks blow out when using a spacer lift

I know this all too well after my Daystar. After two months my shocks were dead and it was scaring the s!@# out of my passengers when hitting bumps and the tire bounces a couple a times and sounds like it's going to fall off...

The rubbing might be caused when he is turning and because of his high lift his camber isn't quite up to par and causing his wheel to "hop" as if in 4WD. Mine did that until I got an alignment.

as mentioned above, the alignment was done by a reputable shop, and the alignment was probably put to factory spec. am I missing something? is there any difference with factory alignment spec versus them just aligning it? im pretty confused about that part.

my jeep has only been off road for, lets say 100 or less miles before the lift, and currently has under 22k miles on it. the lift was installed at 21k miles.

Depending on the height, some shops can't get them in. I know the Firestone by me couldn't do it when I sat at 22"(4" of lift). A week later, everything settled in and I sat at 21.5"(3.5" of lift) and they got it mostly in, but some parts are maxed. I believe my caster is out, cross caster is fine, camber is in(barely), toe is perfect etc.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:21 pm

Bmxer524 wrote:

Depending on the height, some shops can't get them in. I know the Firestone by me couldn't do it when I sat at 22"(4" of lift). A week later, everything settled in and I sat at 21.5"(3.5" of lift) and they got it mostly in, but some parts are maxed. I believe my caster is out, cross caster is fine, camber is in(barely), toe is perfect etc.

You can count on never getting caster into OE spec after lifting on a KJ/KK with any lift out there on the market.If you can find the 2nd set of Superlift extended knuckles(there out there somewhere) used on the Liberator you can get back into OE caster spec on a KJ but no such option or hope for a KK.Not even going to SFA are you going to get good caster,you must sacrifice some for pinion angle unless your really a diehard and cutoff the inner C's and rotate them to have your cake and eat it to(caster and pinion angle).

As long as cross caster is within 0.5 degrees and you have at least 2+ degrees of caster on both sides you will be just fine.Less caster does make it very twitchy at highway speeds with wide tires on poorly maintained roads.Better offroad though since less steering effort needed for low speed turning.It's all a trade off.

Scar0 · **Posted:** Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:35 pm

There is more going on here then just a spacer lift.
Skyjacker does not make a big spacer lift for the KK. The one they sell is 2". A question was asked which was never answered. What else was added to the spacer lift to make it sit so high? The LCA is hitting the stop, when at lock, high up on the curve. Thus the rub and pulling down the front end. With the rig so high, the rattle you are hearing most likely is the UCA contacting the spring.
Can you post a Pic of the front suspension so we ca see what all is going on? This would help us to evaluate the situation more.

Liberty KK R&P

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