What's Stopping a 6" Lift?

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

NAMoulton1 wrote:

Back to the 6" lift though haha...do we have zero options for an aftermarket rack and pinion? What if new knuckles were machined? I know that's how they do a 8" lift with GM truck lifts.

No aftermarket rack, little demand for them. And machine new knuckles, sure go ahead. Cost alot of $$. But if you do machine it, raise the tie rod end up 2". that should take the rack out of a bind.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

Isn't there sensors or stuff inside the knuckles too though? How would I take out the innards of my current knuckles to go inside machined knuckles...

TheBlueKJ · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:40 am

My thing about the JK's/JKU's is that they're so big and fat and everyone and their mother wants one. Everyone at my work busts on me for having a Liberty and says it's not a real Jeep and could never keep up with a Wrangler (lol..) while none of them own Jeeps. One of the guys used to be a Chrysler tech and he's driven and worked on them, says it's a great vehicle on and offroad and was even looking at one for himself, but it's a girl's Jeep so he didn't get one :roll:

The thing about having a Liberty and having to experiment to lift it and get every ounce of capability out of it gives you more of a sense of pride knowing that your Jeep was built and not bought (ala most wranglers), that and the fact you have something unique that very few people have.

But anyway to back the topic at hand

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:30 pm

NAMoulton1 wrote:

Isn't there sensors or stuff inside the knuckles too though? How would I take out the innards of my current knuckles to go inside machined knuckles...

The only sensors are the ABS sensors which is part of the bearing assembly which simply unbolts from the knuckle.

For cast steel expect $50k for a one-off set of knuckles,aluminum expect way more then that and the KK's are aluminum while the KJ's have cast steel.

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:25 pm

oktane17 wrote:

I was wondering the same thing, but at that point im just going to shoot for a cherokee or a wrangler. I cant fathom spending 4k on a lift kit that is honestly absurd!!

I wouldn't mind spending that much if I had the budget to do so. my lift is under $600 currently and it shows!

PALiftedKK · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:32 pm

4x4kayak2112 wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

Back to the 6" lift though haha...do we have zero options for an aftermarket rack and pinion? What if new knuckles were machined? I know that's how they do a 8" lift with GM truck lifts.

No aftermarket rack, little demand for them. And machine new knuckles, sure go ahead. Cost alot of $$. But if you do machine it, raise the tie rod end up 2". that should take the rack out of a bind.

I've got 3 inches on the front and larger knuckles would be very nice.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

tjkj2002 wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

Isn't there sensors or stuff inside the knuckles too though? How would I take out the innards of my current knuckles to go inside machined knuckles...

The only sensors are the ABS sensors which is part of the bearing assembly which simply unbolts from the knuckle.

For cast steel expect $50k for a one-off set of knuckles,aluminum expect way more then that and the KK's are aluminum while the KJ's have cast steel.

$50k for two hunks of steel/aluminum that just happen to be in a specific shape? No way that costs that much...it sounds like an easy day for 3D router...

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

NAMoulton1 wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

Isn't there sensors or stuff inside the knuckles too though? How would I take out the innards of my current knuckles to go inside machined knuckles...

The only sensors are the ABS sensors which is part of the bearing assembly which simply unbolts from the knuckle.

For cast steel expect $50k for a one-off set of knuckles,aluminum expect way more then that and the KK's are aluminum while the KJ's have cast steel.

$50k for two hunks of steel/aluminum that just happen to be in a specific shape? No way that costs that much...it sounds like an easy day for 3D router...

Do you have access to CAD to draw it up, then to mill machine? If so its cheap, if not.....well then its expensive. Machine shop charges upwards of $45 a hour around here for the "low cost shops"

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:55 pm

NAMoulton1 wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

Isn't there sensors or stuff inside the knuckles too though? How would I take out the innards of my current knuckles to go inside machined knuckles...

The only sensors are the ABS sensors which is part of the bearing assembly which simply unbolts from the knuckle.

For cast steel expect $50k for a one-off set of knuckles,aluminum expect way more then that and the KK's are aluminum while the KJ's have cast steel.

$50k for two hunks of steel/aluminum that just happen to be in a specific shape? No way that costs that much...it sounds like an easy day for 3D router...

Gotta pay someone to design it,then the cost of the mold(which runs about $15,000 alone),then the final machining process.

A few years ago when a couple of us talked Riddler into making 8.25 diff covers he 1st wanted to see the market value and interest since it would cost him $35k just to make a prototype and that is just for a simple cast steel diff cover imagine the cost for a knuckle.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

That is a bummer.

Well, what is preventing a cradle drop from working on the KKs?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:07 pm

NAMoulton1 wrote:

:shock: That is a bummer.

Well, what is preventing a cradle drop from working on the KKs?

Totally defeats the whole idea of lifting.Alot more is involved in a cradle drop then simply putting spacers in to lower the cradle,and yes one thing you will need is taller knuckles or relocate the UCA mounts lower to match the cradle drop.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

Hmm...I know I had asked about just putting a spacer on the steering joint on the knuckle and that was illegal according to Tom (give or take a few words haha). I don't really know what else can be done though...this is a brain teaser... :dizzy:

haha.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:04 pm

How does JBA deal with steering on the KJ? Are the R&Ps really that different?

lfhoward · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:43 pm

Just so everyone can visualize it, here is the steering rack angle on a 4 inch lifted KK. Moving the wheels down another two inches to achieve a 6 inch lift height would make the angle unworkable. I'm also unsure that anyone could make a knuckle where they move the steering joint/connector up 2 inches without having contact with the rim.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

That's another predicament...it is seeming like the only way is to fab up a new knuckle that not only goes up two inches but also goes inwards to leave room for the wheel...

lfhoward · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:56 pm

NAMoulton1 wrote:

That's another predicament...it is seeming like the only way is to fab up a new knuckle that not only goes up two inches but also goes inwards to leave room for the wheel...

It might be easier to get or fab tie rod ends that are "L" shaped. I don't know if anything like that exists, but it could fix the severe rod angle coming from the power steering. I'm just thinking out loud here... no idea if that would work or if it would be safe.

lfhoward · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:00 pm

Then you've got to deal with CV angles, and the fact that 4 inches is about the max height that the KK can be aligned at, even using JBA's UCA's. You'd have to somehow be able to correct for the crazy positive camber and toe-in that you'd get. You can see the LCA is near or at the max outside position on the crossmember.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:09 pm

lfhoward wrote:

Then you've got to deal with CV angles, and the fact that 4 inches is about the max height that the KK can be aligned at, even using JBA's UCA's. You'd have to somehow be able to correct for the crazy positive camber and toe-in that you'd get. You can see the LCA is near or at the max outside position on the crossmember.

Alignment is if you keep the cradle where it sits. 3.5" is fine for most alignment shop, to get 4" in you need a good shop that will care and spend the time to get it in. If you do a cradle drop, alignment will be the same for both 4" lift and 6" lift.

As for an "L" shaped tie rod, I'm not sure how that will be strength wise. I'm curious to see what it would take to drop the R&P. It mounts to the crossmember, correct?

lfhoward · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:51 pm

Bmxer524 wrote:

I'm curious to see what it would take to drop the R&P. It mounts to the crossmember, correct?

There are some good photos of the steering rack attachment in this thread by phxtoad. It's a KJ, but it's probably very similar to the KK.
http://www.jeepkj.com/forum/f202/how-band-aid-shot-steering-rack-bushing-40247/

Photos linked from phxtoad's thread:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:05 pm

NAMoulton1 wrote:

That's another predicament...it is seeming like the only way is to fab up a new knuckle that not only goes up two inches but also goes inwards to leave room for the wheel...

Easy fix..................

Granted not cheap either and a lot more involved for a KK.

What's Stopping a 6" Lift?

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