What's Stopping a 6" Lift?

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

tjkj2002 wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

That's another predicament...it is seeming like the only way is to fab up a new knuckle that not only goes up two inches but also goes inwards to leave room for the wheel...

Easy fix..................

Granted not cheap either and a lot more involved for a KK.

Call me stubborn and have something to prove haha. But even if I do do an axle swap for the KK I'd just gut it to fit a stronger IFS setup like this:

Sure it'll be more work and probably not be street legal anymore but that's the only sort of axle swapping I have planned (rear doesn't count...that can be swapped for another solid axle that could support larger tires).

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

lfhoward wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

That's another predicament...it is seeming like the only way is to fab up a new knuckle that not only goes up two inches but also goes inwards to leave room for the wheel...

It might be easier to get or fab tie rod ends that are "L" shaped. I don't know if anything like that exists, but it could fix the severe rod angle coming from the power steering. I'm just thinking out loud here... no idea if that would work or if it would be safe.

I like this idea but like BMXer said...might lose strength. But it's also the steering not the CV or suspension, how much of a beating does this need to take and power does this actually need?

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:34 pm

RCVs can help the CV issue. They have a lifetime warranty for a reason. I think tires over 40" void that, but lets face it not many people will run 40s on KK. Atleast not without turning it into a buggy and solid axles...

The steering is most definitely the biggest obstacle. After that it comes down to the a-arms. I don't see why a spacer can't be made to put between the knuckle and balljoint. Wouldn't that solve the a-arm issue? The only other thing I can think of would be making the a-arms similar to a WK/XK. I'm in the middle of doing a take-home final, but when I'm finished I'll throw up some pics of what I mean.

Edit: This is a pic of WK/XK a-arms. They come out and drop down. That might solve the a-arm issue, but I'm really not sure at all.

Also, since I was looking at it, has anyone gotten a close look at a WK/XK knuckle? Is it possible that it could work on our KK? I honestly have no idea if it's even possible or what it would entail.

It makes me wonder, what's so different about their steering that they can get 6+" of lift with little more than a cradle drop. I know a lot of WKs run 35-37s.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

The UCAs would be pretty easy to fab up (so long as you have a tube bender). I wouldn't be surprised if a 6" lift is made possible JBA would make another generation of UCA for us. I don't ever see 35s under a KK without an engine swap though. 4.88 gears for 33s pretty much sets the limit there. But XK/WK knuckles might not be a bad idea if they can be adapted to a KK...

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:10 am

NAMoulton1 wrote:

The UCAs would be pretty easy to fab up (so long as you have a tube bender). I wouldn't be surprised if a 6" lift is made possible JBA would make another generation of UCA for us. I don't ever see 35s under a KK without an engine swap though. 4.88 gears for 33s pretty much sets the limit there. But XK/WK knuckles might not be a bad idea if they can be adapted to a KK...

Jeepin_it_real told me he wish he went with 4.10s with his setup. Granted we live on Long Island. It's all pretty much sea level and 99% flat. Most hills are on the North Shore and even then it's short and not a constant up and down. 4.56s in his gave him a ton of power, but also over geared him. 33's and 4.56s will be perfect, so I can't see why 35s and 4.88s wouldn't work. I'd imagine it would be close to 31s and 3.73s like we run.

Actually looking at a gear ratio calculator, 4.88s with 315/75-16(34.6") puts you at a higher RPM than 225/75-16s and 3.73s. It's close to stock, but still higher.

The problem at that point would be axles. Gaurenteed to need RCVs for 35s, and I think the dana 30 up front will be toast. The rear might hold for light wheeling, even then you would consider upgrading the 8.25.

As for knuckles, I know a lot of WK guys run OME springs with the 6" superlift. That superlift kit has the cradle drop and custom knuckles. I'm assuming they're taller to work out the a-arm situation.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:10 am

Bmxer524 wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

The UCAs would be pretty easy to fab up (so long as you have a tube bender). I wouldn't be surprised if a 6" lift is made possible JBA would make another generation of UCA for us. I don't ever see 35s under a KK without an engine swap though. 4.88 gears for 33s pretty much sets the limit there. But XK/WK knuckles might not be a bad idea if they can be adapted to a KK...

Jeepin_it_real told me he wish he went with 4.10s with his setup. Granted we live on Long Island. It's all pretty much sea level and 99% flat. Most hills are on the North Shore and even then it's short and not a constant up and down. 4.56s in his gave him a ton of power, but also over geared him. 33's and 4.56s will be perfect, so I can't see why 35s and 4.88s wouldn't work. I'd imagine it would be close to 31s and 3.73s like we run.

Actually looking at a gear ratio calculator, 4.88s with 315/75-16(34.6") puts you at a higher RPM than 225/75-16s and 3.73s. It's close to stock, but still higher.

The problem at that point would be axles. Gaurenteed to need RCVs for 35s, and I think the dana 30 up front will be toast. The rear might hold for light wheeling, even then you would consider upgrading the 8.25.

As for knuckles, I know a lot of WK guys run OME springs with the 6" superlift. That superlift kit has the cradle drop and custom knuckles. I'm assuming they're taller to work out the a-arm situation.

I run 5.13's and it's not really deep enough,5.38's would have been better after you figure in all the added extra weight(I'm over 2000lbs heavier then stock).

tommudd · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:11 am

lfhoward wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

That's another predicament...it is seeming like the only way is to fab up a new knuckle that not only goes up two inches but also goes inwards to leave room for the wheel...

It might be easier to get or fab tie rod ends that are "L" shaped. I don't know if anything like that exists, but it could fix the severe rod angle coming from the power steering. I'm just thinking out loud here... no idea if that would work or if it would be safe.

JBA looked at fabbing up different tie rod ends for the KJ to fix that issue, problem was once he looked into the legality of running the setup on the road it was illegal

tie rod ends is just a very small part of the overall issue
Some mention the Grand C's I have seen the extremes on their CVs etc when lifted into the 6 inch plus range not pretty even with the swaps

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

Bmxer524 wrote:

NAMoulton1 wrote:

The UCAs would be pretty easy to fab up (so long as you have a tube bender). I wouldn't be surprised if a 6" lift is made possible JBA would make another generation of UCA for us. I don't ever see 35s under a KK without an engine swap though. 4.88 gears for 33s pretty much sets the limit there. But XK/WK knuckles might not be a bad idea if they can be adapted to a KK...

Jeepin_it_real told me he wish he went with 4.10s with his setup. Granted we live on Long Island. It's all pretty much sea level and 99% flat. Most hills are on the North Shore and even then it's short and not a constant up and down. 4.56s in his gave him a ton of power, but also over geared him. 33's and 4.56s will be perfect, so I can't see why 35s and 4.88s wouldn't work. I'd imagine it would be close to 31s and 3.73s like we run.

Actually looking at a gear ratio calculator, 4.88s with 315/75-16(34.6") puts you at a higher RPM than 225/75-16s and 3.73s. It's close to stock, but still higher.

The problem at that point would be axles. Gaurenteed to need RCVs for 35s, and I think the dana 30 up front will be toast. The rear might hold for light wheeling, even then you would consider upgrading the 8.25.

As for knuckles, I know a lot of WK guys run OME springs with the 6" superlift. That superlift kit has the cradle drop and custom knuckles. I'm assuming they're taller to work out the a-arm situation.

I think the 4.56s would be perfect then because I have a mountain to drive over and if I ever want to see 45mph I have to redline it (I don't redline though, I like my Jeep haha). And if I ever feel like trying to stuff 33s under her the 4.56s would let me haha. I would need a lot of rear bump stop or the 6" rear lift though...

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

JBA uses this to extend up the knuckle. Is it safe? Well i dont know.

Some chevy guys do this......again i dont know if its safe.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:21 pm

Looking around I found this for a tie rod solution:

Obviously to be street legal, you would need to get rid of the heim joints. I'm also not sure how strong or safe it would be. But it seems like it would work.

As for CV angles on the WKs, this is Omlet's from JF. He sits at over 6" of lift in this picture:

Obviously he runs RCVs, so they're more durable, but the angles are near perfect. He modified his super lift by adding modified OME coils(he cut one coil off of it), and 6" JBA rear springs

kayak, that's exactly what I was talking about. It has to be fairly safe if JBA is producing and selling it. That's probably easier than making new knuckles.

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

Bmxer524 wrote:

kayak, that's exactly what I was talking about. It has to be fairly safe if JBA is producing and selling it. That's probably easier than making new knuckles.

JBA said a few months ago that he was gonna make a new knuckle, he called it a "welded knuckle". i dont know. That spacer he has been selling with his 6" lift for a long time. It shouldnt cost much to machine out one. Maybe $200.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

I like that steering solution but how is it connected in the back? And what would you replace the heim joints with?

EDIT: Found their website...it seems GM might be using this for street legal applications too. <- I lied, I found their disclaimer about it being for "off-highway applications only" bummer. How could a ball joint be mounted onto this and be street legal. And what would you replace the heim joint at inner tie rod/rack and pinion mount (if you even need to?)?

So why not just run this? They're also not GM specific. So long as proper measurements are taken we can actually use this haha. Thing is measurements need to be with the an aligned 6" lift...

Looking at Omelet's knuckle everything about it looks similar to ours except his upper ball joint arm...that extends up past the tire. So I'm doubting the use of a WK knuckle unless you want to do a weld just to it (I'd rather not...).

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

I have a WK at the house, i can tell you that it will NOT work without modification

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

4x4kayak2112 wrote:

I have a WK at the house, i can tell you that it will NOT work without modification

And I'm not willing to a test a modified knuckle haha.

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

NAMoulton1 wrote:

4x4kayak2112 wrote:

I have a WK at the house, i can tell you that it will NOT work without modification

And I'm not willing to a test a modified knuckle haha.

Me either....and my wife wont let me modify her WK.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

So if we can find a way to make that steering track bar thingy legal we have a fix...with RCV axles...haha. But if not heim joints what else? Bushings?

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

tie rods out of a one ton will take a beating. You just need the tubing bent and a way to connect it to the R&P. Boom done.

Bmxer524 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:13 pm

RCVs will only do so much. You'd hve to test them to see where their limits are. Why bother with a 6" lift when that 6" mark is where they start to bind? You'll have no droop.

Might be easier to do a 1-1.5" cradle drop. I know the driveshaft won't really give too many problems, you might just need a longer one. I honestly don't really know.

After that you can throw in RCVs for the added durability and height. Then bend longer tie rod ends to help alleviate steering problems.

Now the next worry is alignment. 3.5" is the limit for normal shops, ~4" for good shops that will take the time to get it in. If it's a trail rig, positive camber isn't a big worry, but if you want a DD then you'll start eating tires. Idk about you guys but I not like the tuners that just want to be "hella flush" eating through tires every few months lol.

NAMoulton1 · **Joined:** Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:01 pm **Posts:** 1054

4x4kayak2112 wrote:

tie rods out of a one ton will take a beating. You just need the tubing bent and a way to connect it to the R&P. Boom done.

Figuring out how to get is attached is the hard part. If we could bend our inner tie rods and lengthen them to accommodate for the bend it would work just fine with stock tie rods.

JeepMorrison · **Joined:** Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:34 am **Posts:** 1236

The only way i see of doing a 6" lift and keeping everything happy is with a 2" cradle drop. Your steering and cv shafts will be at the same angle as the 4" lift. And you just need to worry about the knuckle. Trying to do a 6" lift without any cradle drop is gonna be rough on everything. And will not work very well.

What's Stopping a 6" Lift?

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