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 Post subject: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:00 pm 
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VW caught cheating on diesel emissions standards, ordered to recall 500,000 cars

By Joel Hruska on September 21, 2015

Diesel cars have never been popular in the US, after disastrous early introductions left the American market with a poor impression of the fuel and the commercial vehicles that use it. VW is one of a handful of companies to introduce vehicles based on so-called “clean diesel” technology in the last decade, and claimed that the era of smoking, high-pollution diesel was over. Sounds great in theory — but the entire premise may have been built on false assumptions. On Friday, the EPA slammed Volkswagen with a massive, 500,000-car recall, noting that the manufacturer had designed its vehicles to deliberately hide their own diesel emissions and that the cars can dump up to 40x more pollution into the atmosphere than legally allowed.

There are multiple interesting facets to this situation. When VW brought its clean diesel technology to the US, it hyped up its own use of a urea-based additive, known as AdBlue, as a key component of its exhaust-cleaning system. Because US regulations on nitrous oxide emissions are even more strict than European laws, VW claimed it could bring NOx emissions down to as low as 70mg/mile, in compliance with California’s “Tier 2 / Bin 5″ emission standard. (New York, Massachusetts, Vermont, and Maine also use this standard).
vw-Diesel

No. Daddy’s diesel didn’t lie.

According to the New York Times, VW had methods for detecting when a vehicle was undergoing emissions testing. When it did so, the car would enable its full suite of pollution-scrubbing mechanisms to bring the car into full legal compliance. Once it was no longer undergoing testing, the car would shut these mechanisms off, allowing significantly more pollution to escape into the atmosphere. The recall affects VW Golf, Jetta, Beetle, and Passat TDI models, as well as the Audi A3 and A4 diesel models.

One possible partial explanation is that VW introduced these changes to cut down on maintenance costs. As we previously noted, a number of the clean diesel vehicles use an additive which must be periodically replaced in order to keep the vehicle’s emissions within range. Critically, the rate of additive consumption appears to be roughly equal between European and American vehicles, even though the European cars are held to a significantly less-stringent NOx emission standard. While this is far from a smoking gun, it makes sense that the US version of a clean diesel would require significantly more fluid to reach a commensurately lower emission target of 0.05g/mile. The Euro-5 standard, in contrast, allows for up to 0.25g/km — a much less difficult target.

Since not all the recalled vehicles actually use the urea-based fluid, however, maintenance costs can’t be the entire reason. Other research suggests that VW programmed the vehicle to switch its EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve between high and low states. When set to high EGR, the vehicles’ NOx emissions would be significantly reduced, but total vehicle power would be lower and the car might not respond as quickly. Set to low EGR, and the car’s performance would increase at the cost of much higher emissions. VW, in other words, was concerned that Americans would see its diesel technology as lacking power compared to traditional US gasoline vehicles, and wouldn’t be as interested in buying the cars.
The investigation:

Ironically, the investigation into VW’s performance began in Europe, after tests showed very different results on the road than the lab had measured. Bloomberg reports that European and American researchers allied together with the intent of actually demonstrating that American vehicles, which were supposedly built to these more stringent standards, could run much cleaner than the European cars were actually achieving. Unfortunately, the results of real-world US driving between San Diego and Seattle pointed firmly in the opposite direction. The Jetta and Passat both blew past the legal US limit by up to 35x and 20x respectively. Minimal emissions on the Jetta were 15x worse than allowed by law, whereas the Passat was 5x worse. The BMW X5, in contrast, passed the strict US limits.

Instead of proving that VW had super-clean diesel technology in the US that could be brought back to Europe, the research teams ended up proving that VW was engaged in a long-term lie. The EPA contacted VW about these test results as far back as May, 2014. At first, VW suggested that a simple software defect was to blame, but as time went on, it became clear that the “improvements” VW had made weren’t actually bringing vehicles into compliance. Real-world tests continued to show that the affected models were in violation of US law, while lab tests continued to show no problem. This went on until earlier this year, when US regulators indicated they would refuse to certify VW’s 2016 models for sale in this country.

“Only then did VW admit it had designed and installed a defeat device in these vehicles in the form of a sophisticated software algorithm that detected when a vehicle was undergoing emissions testing,” the EPA said in its letter to VW Friday.
EPA opposed software rules that would have helped it catch the problem

There’s one last facet of this issue worth discussing. Two months ago, the EPA came out strongly against proposed exceptions that would allow the owners of vehicles (including the John Deere tractors we discussed back then) to diagnose problems and perform repairs on the vehicles they legally purchase. Ironically, that same freedom would’ve made it much easier for the EPA to actually detect that VW had programmed its systems to detect when a vehicle was undergoing pollution testing and fully engage its own anti-pollution systems, but to ignore these same systems on the open road.

The EPA opposed allowing end users the freedom to tinker with their own hardware, claiming that giving them the right to do so “would allow users to modify that software for purposes other than those the proponents envision” in a way that “could slow or reverse gains made under the Clean Air Act.” Those same restrictions allowed VW to manufacture vehicles designed to bypass EPA restrictions and ship them for more than half a decade.

The EPA wasn’t wrong to note that some individuals might choose to bypass controls meant to ensure vehicle pollution was minimized — but does it believe that 500,000 people would have paid for aftermarket modifications of their cars over the past six years? Given the current situation, that question is more than academic. As for VW, it could be staring down the barrel of an $18 billion fine.


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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:39 pm 
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Amid emissions scandal, Volkswagen may have mortally wounded the diesel passenger car market

By Jamie Lendino

This morning there’s more fallout from the Volkswagen diesel emissions scandal, as VW has now admitted 11 million vehicles globally may have the defeat software installed that lets the company cheat on its emissions tests. At least in the US, there are approximately 500,000 TDI-branded cars on the roads that are routinely spewing out up to 40 times the legal amount of NOx, which leads to increased air pollution in the form of smog, respiratory problems in humans, and the destruction of the ozone layer. In the meantime, VW has issued a stop-sale order on all new and used TDIs, and the Justice Department has opened a criminal probe.

Perhaps the worst part of this story is that VW has long exhibited this kind of deceptive behavior.

I’ll get to that in a moment. First, there’s various talk around the Web as to what’s going to happen next: How will VW fix the existing cars? Will it degrade their performance or just cost VW tons of money? Will VW give up and offer to buy back the cars entirely? Will the company just offer everyone $100 off on their next VW and generate even more anger and bad will? There will certainly be class-action lawsuits on top of the legal trouble the company is already in. All of this raises questions of who exactly is going to want to buy these cars when all is said and done.

In short, there’s no easy way out of this mess — not just for Volkswagen, but for the 500,000 customers in this country who purchased a new-generation (2009 or newer) TDI vehicle on the grounds of its torquey low-end performance, stellar highway fuel economy, and long range between fill ups. For example, if you bought the car because of its fuel economy, and resultant lower CO2 emissions that contribute to the greenhouse gases that cause global warming, you won’t be thrilled to find out you’ve been polluting the atmosphere in an entirely different manner all this time. If you bought the car because of its performance characteristics, whatever VW does next to fix the problem in the recall could lower that performance and/or curtail its fuel economy numbers.

Here’s the thing, though: Back when VW first announced its “clean diesel” initiative, I covered it a lot for PCMag and its sister blogs (Gearlog, TechnoRide, and GoodCleanTech, the latter three of which are shut down now). There were two things that stood out for me at the time in 2008. The first was the fact that “clean diesel” was really just a fancy way of saying “a diesel car that meets the emissions requirements of all 50 states, just like any garden variety gas car.” In other words, there wasn’t anything particularly clean about it the way a Prius or Chevy Volt is. It’s just that the new VW models finally cleared the US’s more stringent emissions specifications that originally forced the auto manufacturer out of the diesel market for a few years in the mid 2000s.

So once again, VW could sell diesel cars in 50 states. Big whoop — although certainly good for the small-but-fervent group of diesel car enthusiasts. And better fuel economy does equate to lower CO2 emissions, at least.

The other thing was more egregious: the fact that VW actually lied in its MPG claims in its initial advertising for the new-for-2009 models by skipping ahead of the EPA and hiring its own third-party vendor, AMCI, to come up with BS results of 38 MPG city and 44 MPG highway (link via the Wayback Machine). A little googling at the time revealed that VW basically hired a brand marketing firm to “run tests” that generated more favorable results than the EPA would, and the cars actually landed around 29 to 30 MPG city and 39 to 42 MPG highway depending on model and driveline configuration.

VW eventually gave up on that transparent ploy in its advertising and cited the still-good EPA numbers, although now we’re learning that the company cheated big time on emissions in order to get the engines to perform well. And yet, even knowing what I knew above, I still bought a TDI a few years ago myself, because that’s the thing about being a car enthusiast: It’s not always the most rational thing to fix up a ’78 Alfa Romeo Spider or shell out $600 divots to your mechanic every two months to keep an ’83 Porsche 944 on the road, but you do it anyway because you love the cars.

BMW, Mercedes, and others have found ways to deliver on diesel’s promise while staying ahead of emissions requirements. I’ve been in and driven several diesels from the other German manufacturers and can report they’re great performers. So the technology isn’t necessary hopeless for passenger cars. Hopefully we won’t find out BMW and Mercedes cheated too, though given the much higher price of those cars, it’s doubtful they needed to.

Regardless, the story here for VW — and owners of TDIs like me — is far from over. Granted, there will always be diesel trucks on the road until someone develops a more advanced way to transport untold tons of cargo across the country, and trucks have looser emissions restrictions anyway. And the tinkerers who chip or otherwise modify their car’s engine performance never cared about NOx emissions in the first place. But a story this horrendous, and this damaging to the image of “clean diesel” as an alternative, environmentally safe fuel for the 21st century, already has far-reaching implications and could very well lead to the death of diesel in passenger cars in the US once again.

Here we thought the days of sooty, clattering early 80s diesel cars were long gone. Turns out all you need to do is cheat on your emissions tests.


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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:18 pm 
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I wonder if this will effect the release of the 2016 Colorado diesel and the 2016 Wrangler diesel?

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:32 pm 
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Thanks EPA, but I'll keep my (non) smoking, (non) clattering VW diesel that gets over 40 mpg going 75 mph with very little maintanence or worry.

Looks like I may have to buy a OBDII port lock before visiting the VW dealer.

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:10 pm 
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I wouldn't count on any imminent releases of small diesel from any other manufacturers. This giant mess is going to spread to every sector eventually.

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:00 pm 
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I would guess our CRD's had some "questionable" issues with EPA certification as well...

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:21 pm 
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This seems like a recall to steer clear of. Nice work V-Dub.

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:24 pm 
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This is the "war on diesel". Nothing to do with pollution. If epa was so concerned about pollution, they wouldn't dump toxic mine waste water in Colorado, or allow all those industrial machinery without cat converters, Def, etc... Just dirty politics...

Or they would put cat converters on volcanos, one volcano pollutes in a day more than the whole humanity in a year.

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:33 pm 
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I'm pretty sure that any jurisdiction that performs emissions testing will give an automatic fail to any vehicles that have not completed the recall.

As for the consumer backlash and potential lawsuits resulting from the de-tuning required to make them compliant? Well just look at what Chrysler got away with with F37.

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Last edited by dirtmover on Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:01 pm 
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Still, they must have had a lot of EGR in their normal programming, given all the photos of crapped-up VW intakes I've seen on the internet. My 120K pre-eco-tune CRD did not look nearly this bad.


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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:46 am 
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I think modified diesel owners who live in nanny states with emission testing should probably be the ones on the lookout. This will probably be used to push legislation on locking ECU software and adding extra emissions testing funding to catch the "cheaters".

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:46 pm 
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The only way I could see this affecting other small diesels is if this affects customer confidence or delays their release due to new testing regimes. I would think most of the 2016 models would already be certified by EPA. And even if EPA wants to retest them, I doubt it can affect 2016 certifications without opening the Gov't to legal action. It costs a lot of money to reconfigure production lines at this stage and the manufacturers have already set their quotas.

Based on the assumption that VW is the only one cheating, long term the only concern would be customer confidence since the leading producer has to do this huge recall, although non-safety recalls don't seem to frustrate customers, and performance may be less than desired. If the only fallout is higher DEF consumption, most diesel owners won't switch over a few $$ a year. And VW could even alleviate some of that bad press by offering free DEF fill-ups at their dealers every x,000 miles.


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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:55 pm 
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KC-CRD wrote:
The only way I could see this affecting other small diesels is if this affects customer confidence or delays their release due to new testing regimes. I would think most of the 2016 models would already be certified by EPA. And even if EPA wants to retest them, I doubt it can affect 2016 certifications without opening the Gov't to legal action. It costs a lot of money to reconfigure production lines at this stage and the manufacturers have already set their quotas.

Based on the assumption that VW is the only one cheating, long term the only concern would be customer confidence since the leading producer has to do this huge recall, although non-safety recalls don't seem to frustrate customers, and performance may be less than desired. If the only fallout is higher DEF consumption, most diesel owners won't switch over a few $$ a year. And VW could even alleviate some of that bad press by offering free DEF fill-ups at their dealers every x,000 miles.


I certainly hope your vision of this is the right one. Consumer confidence in diesels is the big issue, they were JUST STARTING to make a real push in the marketplace and people were finally noticing that they aren't the "dirty stinky slow" diesels that GM produced in the 80s and destroyed the market for 30 years.

I just wish I had the cash laying around to pick one up now - the values are bound to plummet with this kind of press, and as everyone on this forum is well aware - how the car is currently programmed is *just fine* with us!

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:13 pm 
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VW CEO has just stepped down as a result of this mess - I heard somewhere else that he had come from the engineering division, so it is entirely possible that he was aware and in charge of this from the beginning anyway. I don't think we have even seen the beginning of the end of the fallout from this.

This is going to go on for a while I think.


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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:53 pm 
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To assert the other OEMs do not have defeat software is naive. We look deeply into every manufacturers diesel software and have found anomalies in most as it pertains to off-cycle techniques to improve fuel economy. The core issue stems from having the same emission standards for gas and diesel motors with the caveat that CO2 is not regulated. If these government yippies were really concerned about global climate change, then CO2 would be the primary emission constituent to regulate. NOx has a very short lifespan in the environment, something like 2 days in warm weather and maybe a week in cold weather before if breaks down. This is where the LA basin is ruining things for the rest of the US.

The VW defeat device is called "acoustic control", and it adjusts injection timing, pilot injection, egr and lean nox control based on steering wheel angle and a couple other inputs. When a fix is released, the kicker will be lower real life fuel economy and less hardware durability for the consumer. Our guess is VW will have to compensate owners and maybe cover warranty for another 5 years.

Barring any new legislation, I will get back to spraying corn fields with ample amounts a Anhydrous Ammonia and let that NOx float in the air.

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 3:25 pm 
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hmm , I was thinking this would be a good opt for Fiat and found this looking for something else

http://news.allpar.com/index.php/2015/0 ... onne-30069

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:30 pm 
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ibedonc wrote:
hmm , I was thinking this would be a good opt for Fiat and found this looking for something else

http://news.allpar.com/index.php/2015/0 ... onne-30069

I one doubt this, vw has the money to buy 2 fiat. Plus, it's a trusted brand, which fiat isn't. The stock drop has nothing to do with the quality of vw, it's just market speculation. And let's be honest, their trickery didn't kill anybody, compared to those cheap bean counters that put gm ignition switch, or tires that can blow like old explorers, etc.

I trust vw brand more than I trust any American vehicle brand, still, I drive a crd, lol.

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 Post subject: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 6:14 pm 
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The biggest problem that we have with the VM, is that it's wrapped inside a Chrysler. I'm driving a Volkswagen TDI right now that will hit 340,000 miles before the end of October. The way I drive, it may end up doing that before the middle of October! There is into another vehicle brand out there that has this kind of reliability and longevity. It's very true that this may be a mess for VW, but it's also very true that this is only a mess because of the EPA. Not one person is going to get sick from this, nobody is going to die, this is a solution looking for a problem. But of course, that's what the EPA is best at. If they actually cared about the environment, they would be regulating CO2 emissions, and the first place they would go and look is at the over 500 coal power plants that far and away pollute more than even the dirtiest diesel engine ever could.

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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:01 pm 
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From the NY Times:


More than any other automaker, Volkswagen had tried to win American consumers back to diesel cars, and erase memories of unreliable, polluting cars that spewed clouds of smoke and had trouble starting in winter weather. Unlike Europe, where about half the passenger vehicles sold run on diesel, such cars account for fewer than 1 percent of new car sales in the United States. Most of those vehicles are sold by Volkswagen.

When new emissions standards were introduced in 2009, Volkswagen was the first major carmaker to offer vehicles that could meet the new rules. In August, diesel sales accounted for 23 percent of all cars sold by Volkswagen in the United States.


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 Post subject: Re: VW knew what to do about the EGR
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:15 am 
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All this discussion about NOx emissions prompted me to do a little bit of research.

NOx is a byproduct of combustion. Nearly all forms of combustion produce oxides of nitrogen.
Burning oil, diesel, gasoline, coal, and wood will produce NOx by one means or another.
The effect is even more pronounced in fuels that already contain large amounts of nitrogen.
Gasoline engines are not immune from producing NOx, they just produce less of it than diesel engines.
Burning coal is probably the greatest contributor atmospheric NOx gasses.
Anhydrous Ammonia is a common exhaust after-treatment for coal fired power plants and its effect is the same as using Urea in diesel exhaust.
You dont want to be anywhere near a Anhydrous Ammonia leak without a self contained breathing apparatus (SCBA).

NO and NO2 (NOx) emissions do lead to the production of smog, which is harmful to the lungs.
But to do so, the NOx gasses must react with volatile organic compounds (un-burned hydrocarbons) in the atmosphere.

NOx gasses can contribute to global cooling.
Methane is a major greenhouse gas. More so than CO2.
There are many sources of methane here on earth, both natural and man-made.
Atmospheric reactions between NOx and CH4 reduce buildup of CH4 in the atmosphere.
The long term effects of this can lead to global cooling.

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