Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 12:17 am

To me, it just looks like the gasket got stuck to the valve cover during removal, and bent itself upward to catch / lift the rocker.
FYI: That is the #4 cylinder. They are numbered from the front of the engine.

If you cannot rotate the engine by hand from this point where all the valves are supposed to be closed... Then you have bad things happening below that head and you need to remove the head to discover the problem. Time to get more greasy. :banghead:

samse2101 · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 12:56 pm

new picture:

seems a defective valve at cylinder #3

head is still on the block, because 3 nuts broke at the third-last cylinder head bolt... :banghead:

next weekend more... :roll:

bye,
samse :BANANA:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 2:02 pm

Dang, yeah, the valve almost certainly snapped off, and the stem is jammed in the guide. You should be able to pick up a used piston and be sleeve for cheap. The rod is the big question I think

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 2:06 pm

Mountainman wrote:

Dang, yeah, the valve almost certainly snapped off, and the stem is jammed in the guide. You should be able to pick up a used piston and be sleeve for cheap. The rod is the big question I think

Nick, are you seeing many bent rods when this happens? I would think with a sudden stop and not trying to crank it over(which I can't remember if that the case for this one) the rods would be safe

geordi · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 2:09 pm

Josh - You'd be surprised... The power of the diesel is such that not only can a dropped valve trash the top of the piston and the bottom of the head (obviously)... It can also cause the piston to be cocked sideways in the bore and punch out the liner OR bend the rod. I've had my hands on both.

I think if it is able to turn over smoothly, then the rod may not be bent. But any binding or noises.... Bad news.

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sat May 28, 2016 10:33 pm

geordi wrote:

Josh - You'd be surprised... The power of the diesel is such that not only can a dropped valve trash the top of the piston and the bottom of the head (obviously)... It can also cause the piston to be cocked sideways in the bore and punch out the liner OR bend the rod. I've had my hands on both.

I think if it is able to turn over smoothly, then the rod may not be bent. But any binding or noises.... Bad news.

Ugh, just another think to think about. Are guys buying a complete set or are they balance and matched pretty much already.

Sorry op, were kinda hijacking your thread

geordi · **Posted:** Sun May 29, 2016 12:24 am

Well, to help out Samse - Buy impact sockets, they are strong enough to put up with the breaker bar you will need to use to crank on the bolt with enough force to get it loose. You will probably want at least a 30 inch breaking bar, 4 foot would be better.

As far as the balance on the pistons, I think Nick mentioned that there were two different weights, and now the only weights are the "newer" style and not the old ones. So you have to either scavenge, or buy a complete set. I don't know about the rods though, and quite frankly... Nick is a rockstar for doing that at all with these things. I'm still not at that level, and hope I never need to be. I just finished swapping the entire motor on my TDI, and I'm actually back in St Louis right now with it - running strong. If I knew of any place to take the Jeep's head and have stronger valves installed, I'd do it in a minute for my CRD. I don't think they exist though.

samse2101 · **Posted:** Sun May 29, 2016 10:53 am

jws84_02 wrote:

Sorry op, were kinda hijacking your thread

No prob, i´m still learning and interested in everything about this faulty engine...

@geordi: still ordered the impact socket, the cylinder head bolt -> it´s an 11mm hex screw, but i´ve to wait to get the socket... :juggle:

"sockets", thats the right word, in austria we call it "nuts" :oops:

bye,
samse :wink:

geordi · **Posted:** Sun May 29, 2016 11:10 am

Yes, I know that 11mm well. I've broken several sockets on those, which is why I know now to only buy the impact rated.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun May 29, 2016 9:21 pm

geordi wrote:

Well, to help out Samse - Buy impact sockets, they are strong enough to put up with the breaker bar you will need to use to crank on the bolt with enough force to get it loose. You will probably want at least a 30 inch breaking bar, 4 foot would be better.

As far as the balance on the pistons, I think Nick mentioned that there were two different weights, and now the only weights are the "newer" style and not the old ones. So you have to either scavenge, or buy a complete set. I don't know about the rods though, and quite frankly... Nick is a rockstar for doing that at all with these things. I'm still not at that level, and hope I never need to be. I just finished swapping the entire motor on my TDI, and I'm actually back in St Louis right now with it - running strong. If I knew of any place to take the Jeep's head and have stronger valves installed, I'd do it in a minute for my CRD. I don't think they exist though.

Well, I've just gleaned info from the guys that have already built one completely. I think I have it figured out, but maybe I'll be a rockstar if I get one put together and it's stilling running well after 100k :dizzy:

As for the rods, I'm trying to figure out just how tough they are right now. The engine I'm tearing down seems to have an ok bottom end, minus the melted piston. The big question is, should I assemble an entire engine if the bearings are good, and just assume that rod is ok... But, I'll get it over to the machine shop, and let them test the balance of the bottom end, and then assemble with their approval.
In a rush, but in short, the new pistons are different weights, haven't figured out if they are heavier or lighter, but if they are heavier, it shouldn't be a problem to shave them down close enough. Rods, I'll be matching to the weight of another one from that engine. If the new ones are significantly lighter, then it's one used piston, or 4 new ones, which gets ridiculously expensive! Where it gets hairy, is that I'm fairly certain that you can't get the old rings, which sucks...

thermorex · **Posted:** Mon May 30, 2016 7:33 pm

I'm one worried about the huge amount of gunk in the intake passages on the front cylinders... Why is that much in there?

samse2101 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:06 am

So guys, had to wait 2 weeks for the socket.... :roll:

but here´s the moment of truth:

i can rotate the engine now, but i still don´t know how the coolant came to the engine oil... :?:

Next WE i´ll remove the engine from the transmission...

I would be glad to have your explanation. :wink:

bye,
samse

samse2101 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:34 am

Does anyone know of someone who has broken valves, that the coolant went to the engine oil in cause of a defective cylinder head gasket? immediately after engine stalled/ valves broke???

bye,
samse

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:22 pm

samse2101 wrote:

Does anyone know of someone who has broken valves, that the coolant went to the engine oil in cause of a defective cylinder head gasket? immediately after engine stalled/ valves broke???

bye,
samse

Yes, that's normal. It either gets through from the head cracking or the HG blowing violently. I doubt yours ran long enough to damage the bearings, so hopefully one used piston with good rings (can't buy they anymore I think) and a new sleeve and you'll be good.

samse2101 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:10 pm

Ok, so i understand right, you think at first broke a valve, then the coolant ran into the engine oil?

bye,
samse

rankom · **Posted:** Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:13 pm

you got it . valve broke 1st then broke cylinder head and coolant goes into oil pan , but why this happens ? there was many discussions , what is the the cause . nobody has the right answer (SO FAR) they say this is RARE or EGR is the problem or faulty part ? or have not closing fast enough (STICKING IN THE GUIDE ) or high exhaust temp . honestly i don't know why , but one thing i see is this motor likes do in it . more then others that i worked .

jws84_02 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:00 pm

darn, another one bites the dust. Like others said. First the valve dropped and that caused and violent impact and either cracks the head or lifts the gasket and dumps the coolant. Get yourself a used piston and liner and a good tested head and get it back on the road

samse2101 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:15 am

Back on the road -> yes

but not with a diesel anymore.... :roll:

after this seeing, i´m thinking about an engine swap, which engine fits a 45RFE-transmission? I´ve seen a list on the web with the different engines and transmission housings but can´t find it anymore.... :oops:

bye,
samse

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:23 pm

Much as that physically might be possible, you are opening a bottomless pit of problems. The computers would also all need to be changed, and reprogrammed to make it no longer a Cherokee. Buying a new VM engine will certainly be cheaper.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

samse2101 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:11 pm

i think i know how much work it will be, but i´ve bought me a second liberty KJ with 3.7l as my actual DD an dso i´ve the time to try it out...

i´ve also send a request for a new R428 engine to the local dealer of VM -> so let´s see what will happens.... :wink:

by the way -> these guys are near by me, so i´ve already contacted them to help me out if i need help -> http://www.4x4-stubai.com/

bye,
samse

Engine stalled abruptly-> coolant is missing

Who is online