Locking hubs

805gregg · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 1:16 pm

Does anyone know if there are locking hubs available for the KJ?

pixeldzn · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 1:53 pm

I don't believe it is possible due to the way our transfer case is designed. I may be wrong though.

Guyute1210 · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 3:30 pm

pixeldzn wrote:

I don't believe it is possible due to the way our transfer case is designed. I may be wrong though.

I wouldn't think it would depend on the T/C, only the hubs and shafts. The stock rims have a center piece that can come out. But I'm not sure if there is one available for ours or not. Someone will chime in im sure.

Myke · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 6:12 pm

what are locking hubs?

jason thompson · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 7:00 pm

Myke wrote:

what are locking hubs?

they are the "turny" things in the center of the axel that will allow you to release the front tires from the axel and turn or rotate free from one another with out ever turning the diff or axels

as far as if they make thim i dont know but i dont see why the could not
but then again ford made the ranger for 2 years with a vacume locking hub that if you put you truck in 4wd and the front end was under water (more than about 12") it would ruin both hubs and cost you about $1200 for the dealer to fix or $800 in parts and you fix because they could not be rebuilt
and trust me i had one they SUCKED

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 7:33 pm

If and when I get the dana 44 in the front, I may just look at the warn conversion kit they have for the TJ and Cherokees. The kit is around a grand, and you will need to change the rims due to the hub size, but it just may work.

Al

libby · **Posted:** Wed May 10, 2006 9:48 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the splines on the axle do not extend past the sealed bearing. Also, the wheel hub is the inner part of the bearing. Therefore, there is no way to temporarily disconnect the hub from the axle. The reason our wheels have a small hole in the middle is because the axle and hub do not protrude through the center of the wheel like the hubs on a traditional solid axle.

slikjr · **Posted:** Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:42 pm

Locking front and rear are options for the KJ. An ARB air locker is available that I have heard works very well. Also, an automatic locker such as a "NoSlip" that will allow slipping on pavement but not in offroad situations work very well and can be put in.

A hard to find stat; KJ Front Axle (diff) is a DANA 30 and rear axle is 8.25" Corporate Model (Chrysler)

Any questions, get back to me. My fiance works at a Jeep dealership as a warranty tech and knows all (or at least I let her believe) or can find it out.

XJMA · **Posted:** Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:15 pm

you're hubs are locked. they're permanently locked. they don't unlock. lock-out hubs require a lot more moving breakable parts than fulltime hubs.

KJs have fulltime locked hubs. no way to unlock them.

Myke · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:57 am

slikjr wrote:

Locking front and rear are options for the KJ. An ARB air locker is available that I have heard works very well. Also, an automatic locker such as a "NoSlip" that will allow slipping on pavement but not in offroad situations work very well and can be put in.

A hard to find stat; KJ Front Axle (diff) is a DANA 30 and rear axle is 8.25" Corporate Model (Chrysler)

Any questions, get back to me. My fiance works at a Jeep dealership as a warranty tech and knows all (or at least I let her believe) or can find it out.

You are talking about locking the diffs, the hubs are totally different.

swyszomirski · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:59 am **Posts:** 286

I was just thinking of looking into doing this mod this summer. I was going to look at yota hubs cause I have seen them with the un-lock feature. I am tempted to mill and turn my hubs to get this to work. The biggest problem I see so far is that the center of the tire mounting plate is solid, so it would have to be turned out, and that sounds expensive if I am off by a bit.

But after thinking about all of this, the only reason I can see for doing this is to get better mileage.

Se7enLC · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:49 pm

swyszomirski wrote:

I was just thinking of looking into doing this mod this summer. I was going to look at yota hubs cause I have seen them with the un-lock feature. I am tempted to mill and turn my hubs to get this to work. The biggest problem I see so far is that the center of the tire mounting plate is solid, so it would have to be turned out, and that sounds expensive if I am off by a bit.

But after thinking about all of this, the only reason I can see for doing this is to get better mileage.

And I bet it would be really disappointing to do all that and only get an extra 2mpg or something when you could increase that much just by trimming some weight off the jeep elsewhere. Like maybe fabbing up some half-doors and a removable top :-D

chefdab · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:52 pm

Another reason to put in locking hubs: I guy I work with did this to his TJ. He also put in a full locker in the front axle. Without having locking hubs, it would be almost impossible to turn the wheels on dry pavement. So for two wheel drive on the road, he runs the hubs unlocked to be able to turn. Also if you want you can leave the front hubs unlocked when you switch to low range and only have low range rear wheel drive. The conversion he said was also stronger axle shafts than stock.

Se7enLC · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:55 pm

chefdab wrote:

Another reason to put in locking hubs: I guy I work with did this to his TJ. He also put in a full locker in the front axle. Without having locking hubs, it would be almost impossible to turn the wheels on dry pavement. So for two wheel drive on the road, he runs the hubs unlocked to be able to turn. Also if you want you can leave the front hubs unlocked when you switch to low range and only have low range rear wheel drive. The conversion he said was also stronger axle shafts than stock.

I assume by locker you really mean "welded-the-axle-together" sort of locker. You can get selectable lockers (like the arb air locker for example, or some cable-lockers) where you can engage/disengage the lock with the press of a button. When it's off, you can turn, when it's on, it's locked. Seems much simpler than having to lock/unlock hubs like they did in the 1980s.

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 5:11 pm

chefdab wrote:

Another reason to put in locking hubs: I guy I work with did this to his TJ. He also put in a full locker in the front axle. Without having locking hubs, it would be almost impossible to turn the wheels on dry pavement. So for two wheel drive on the road, he runs the hubs unlocked to be able to turn. Also if you want you can leave the front hubs unlocked when you switch to low range and only have low range rear wheel drive. The conversion he said was also stronger axle shafts than stock.

Aww! That would be awsome to have 4low in 2wd! Would be great for pulling boats up blacktop hills and things!

swyszomirski · **Joined:** Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:59 am **Posts:** 286

I was thinking about the mileage question, and I don't know if it would be really all that great of an increase, but it would be cool to have I think. I do like the idea of half doors and a removeable top, but my dad would kill me for the roof idea, and I don't know how good the KJ would look with half doors only. I guess something for photoshop to prove.

XJMA · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:57 pm

chefdab wrote:

Another reason to put in locking hubs: I guy I work with did this to his TJ. He also put in a full locker in the front axle. Without having locking hubs, it would be almost impossible to turn the wheels on dry pavement. So for two wheel drive on the road, he runs the hubs unlocked to be able to turn. Also if you want you can leave the front hubs unlocked when you switch to low range and only have low range rear wheel drive. The conversion he said was also stronger axle shafts than stock.

Not to be rude here, but about having issues turning with a front locker in 2wheel drive you are 100% incorrect. With full time, or lockout hubs upfront, when you're in 2wheel drive, the locker is invisible. Automatic locking differentials (tech term for locker) only lock up when power is applied to them from the driveshaft. When you're not applying power to them, they are able to automatically unlock, and then when you apply power again, they lock up, hence the automatic locking differential.

If you have a fulltime 4x4 system, and want a front locker, you should either swap tcases to a part time tcase, or have lockout hubs.

when you're in 4, with a front locker, it is more difficult to turn, but not impossible. I can't see anyone ever needing 4 on dry pavement, but just to set it straight, it would suck even more if you tried to turn on dry pavement in 4 with a front locker. definitely not recommended....but anyone with a front locker probably already knows this and has no reason to be in 4 on pavement anyways (or any reason to be on pavement period)!!

Now, if you have a vehicle equipped with a front locker, and you're in tight woods, it is convenient to be able to unlock one of the hubs so you can turn more easily. But going through a conversion for this would be asinine. There is a conversion available for the D30 (solid axle, not the ifs pumpkins) but it's about 800-1400 bux depending on what you get with it and IMO, and many other peoples oppinions, not worth it. If you want lockout hubs that bad, upgrade to a D44, toyota axle or D60 that already has them. A guy in my club with a monster chopped suburban has a front spool, because they're cheaper than a locker, so for most of the time he just drives around with one hub unlocked so he can turn, and locks it out when he needs it, which is only on hard obstacles. 3wheel drive works pretty well for most stuff, ha ha.

Now you may be asking yourself, why the hell do all the older jeeps and 4x4s have lockout hubs, but newer jeeps don't??? Pretty much the only vehicles that still have lockout hubs are huge 4x4s. And in their cases, disconnecting the front driveline may have a very minimal positive effect on gas mileage...but minimal for sure. Originally pretty much all 4x4s had lockouts because they use a spindle with two bearins that ride inside the rotor design. 2wheel drives use a spindle too, so putting a drive axle upfront, it was natural to mimic the design. Also, they used to think that it was beneficial to have the front driveline not moving as much to increase the life of parts, decrease the wear and tear. Well, they spin even if you have the hubs unlocked, although not as much. After a while, jeep decided that there were just too many freakin parts upfront in an axle and wanted to simplify the design. They still wanted to think about having less weight moving, so they put a CAD (center axle disconnect) that was kinda a substitute for lockouts. took atleast part of the front driveline out of the equation when in 2. They soon figured out that not only was this another point of potential failure, but that it was useless. The mileage difference for any jeep with a D30 with lockouts vs. a D30 with fulltime hubs is absolutely negligable. And fulltime hubs are much easier to deal with!! pull rotor, pull unit hub and shaft, and that's all there is to it. If you've ever had to work on bearings on a lockout hub, you'd have a better idea of why they simplified the design.

Sorry for the long ramble but I couldn't stand to see youguys spinning wheels so much on this subject!! I hope I touched on all of your questions and I hope that this makes some sense to ya.

So yeah, don't even think about wasting a penny on trying to get lockouts for your IFS. Ifyou want an upgrade for your front end, swap in a solid axle!!

XJMA · **Posted:** Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:59 pm

swyszomirski wrote:

I was thinking about the mileage question, and I don't know if it would be really all that great of an increase, but it would be cool to have I think. I do like the idea of half doors and a removeable top, but my dad would kill me for the roof idea, and I don't know how good the KJ would look with half doors only. I guess something for photoshop to prove.

Easiest way to get lockouts, half doors, and a removable top is to buy a CJ!!! You could do it to the KJ, but it would be MUCH less $$$ and work!

Jeepin Al · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:48 am

Hello!!

I kinda disagree with the milage, you stop spinning all the front equpment, on my old Jeep, with the hubs locked in I averaged almost 5 mpg less than free hub. My diesel pick-up almost 4 mpg difference. So you are running your KJ at 17 mpg, with the hubs maybe 20 to 22 mpg. not bad. I remember when someone blew their front diff, and removed it for a while and drove around he said he almost douled his gas milage, maybe a little over on his discription, but it impressed him enough to mention it. The question, is the return on your money justify the say $1500 you need to spend for the change over and machining if you do it your self, most likely $2500 if you have it done.

As for the quadra-trac full time four wheel drive, I think I wold only use a limited slip up front, or to be really safe an ARB. I have the 242 case, with the full time option, you do feel the limited slip hunt even when not in 4 x4 mode, and its even worse when you go into fulltime. Most people do not enjoy fighting the wheel, but for me its all part of owning 4 x 4's!!!

Al

XJMA · **Posted:** Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:48 pm

Mileage results will vary. Like I said, the mileage increase can be significant for larger vehicles, which may be part of the reason why they still have them on most large trucks.

Removing your front DS will help increase your gas mileage. If you don't need it.....why not??

The cost on a KJs front end would most likely be much more than 1500 just for parts. It's ~1000 give or take on a D30 to do it. If you can't do it yourself......I duno why you would even bother??? You would need new half-shafts up front, and then you would have to carry a special spare half shaft on the trail. I bet you could buy a D30 and have someone install it for you for the price of just the parts of converting a D30 over to lockouts!

Locking hubs

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