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 Post subject: Do I have a lemon?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:18 am 
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I haven't posted here in a while 'cause I'm frustrated with my Jeep. As of today, there is 28,395 miles on the clock and it just came back from the dealer with its 5th belt tensioner and a new water pump. Let me explain...

Once my KJ gets up to operating temps there is a wierd rattle coming from the front end of the vehicle. But its really only noticable when #1 its up to temperature, #2 when the trans is in gear and #3 driving at low speed such as through a drive-thru at the bank or McDonalds.

Anyways its been to 3 different dealers and has had all of this work done to it. Needless to say I'm getting a little pissed. :evil: :evil: :evil:

I love the KJ when its in proper running condition but with 7k miles to go with a warrentee I don't know if I can afford to keep taking this vehicle in. What happens after my 36k miles are up and I have this problem again?

Should I just have this KJ declared a lemon and get a new Jeep? Or do I keep it and hope for the best?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:28 am 
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Check the lemon laws for your state...I know in TN if you have your car serviced for the same problem 3 consecutive times w/in a warranty or certain mileage period of time you can have it declared as a lemon and then from there you somehow get a new car or something like that, but I know that there are rules in place to help you the owner out in this circumstance...

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:00 am 
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I feel you,I'm on my 3RD belt tensioner and I'm out of warrenty :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:59 am 
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ABSOLUTELY file a lemon law complaint with your attorney generals office. If the same repair has been done three times and still is not satisfactory, the manufacturer must buy the car back from you. Your situation sounds like a classic lemon. Chances are you just got a bad vehicle and if it was replaced with a new Liberty you'd most likely not have that issue. Don't wait, initiate action now. Five times for the same repair is insane.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:38 am 
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Darn union guy must've been hungover while putting that one together.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 4:04 pm 
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RockyMtEditionKJ wrote:
Check the lemon laws for your state...I know in TN if you have your car serviced for the same problem 3 consecutive times w/in a warranty or certain mileage period of time you can have it declared as a lemon and then from there you somehow get a new car or something like that, but I know that there are rules in place to help you the owner out in this circumstance...


same law for Massachusetts

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 5:08 pm 
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man, that'd actually be kind of nice, if like, say, after about 30,000 miles, a lemon-producing problem develops. I'd just keep getting a new Libby all the time. Ahh, it'd be so nice

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:11 pm 
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If I get a new vehicle it will be a Wrangler Unlimited. Going to see the dealer tomorrow.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:10 am 
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NU ARTY BOY wrote:
If I get a new vehicle it will be a Wrangler Unlimited. Going to see the dealer tomorrow.


Forget going to the dealer - they're not going to help you. Go to your State's Attorney's Office. They can provide guidance on the exact procedures for filing a lemon law claim in your state.

Here's some info for you I was able to find on the web:

Michigan Lemon Law: How to Avoid Getting Stuck With a Lemon

CONSUMER PROTECTION DIVISION
DEPARTMENT OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

In 1999, Michigan’s motor vehicle Lemon Law was amended to provide important new legal protections for Michigan consumers. Now, for the first time, consumers who lease new motor vehicles for personal, family or household use are afforded the same legal remedies as those who purchase new motor vehicles.

For many of us, buying or leasing a vehicle is one of the largest consumer transactions we will ever make. Unfortunately, no matter how careful we are, a few of our shiny, new vehicles will turn out to be lemons. That’s why it is extremely important that we understand how these significant changes to Michigan’s Lemon Law affect our rights as consumers. In this pamphlet, I have outlined answers to some of the most commonly asked Lemon Law questions. The complete text of the law is included in this brochure. I hope you’ll find this information helpful in the event you have a problem with your vehicle.


ATTORNEY GENERAL

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT THE LEMON LAW

What kinds of problems are covered by the new Lemon Law?

The Lemon Law protects a consumer whose new motor vehicle has a "defect or condition that impairs the use or value of the new motor vehicle to the consumer." Significantly, the law now measures the defect or condition from the point of view of the individual consumer, not the manufacturer or dealer. Clearly, an engine, transmission, brake or steering defect may meet this level of impairment. However, a persistent intermittent defect, such as a water leak, noxious odor, or paint problem may also be a defect or condition entitling the consumer to relief under the Lemon Law.

How do I know if I have a "lemon" covered by the Lemon Law?

The consumer may invoke the Lemon Law if:

The new motor vehicle has been subject to repair a total of 4 or more times within 2 years of the date of the first attempt to repair the defect or condition, or

The new motor vehicle is out of service because of repairs for a total of 30 or more days during the manufacturer’s warranty period or the first year, whichever is earlier.

Is there a time period within which the initial attempted repair must occur?

Yes. The buyer or lessee must have done the initial repair during the first year of delivery. The remaining three repairs, for the same defect, must occur within two years from the initial repair attempt. Alternatively, the vehicle must be out of service for repair for 30 or more days during the term of the manufacturer’s express warranty or within 1 year of delivery, whichever is earlier.

Does the buyer or lessee have the option of requesting a refund or replacement vehicle?

Yes. The buyer or lessee has the right to demand a refund or may choose to accept a comparable replacement motor vehicle currently in production. If a lessee agrees to accept a replacement vehicle, the lease agreement cannot be changed, except to substitute the vehicle identification number.

If I want a refund, what is included in the purchase or lease price?

The "purchase price" of the vehicle is the actual vehicle sales price listed on the buyer’s order including any cash payment, trade-in allowance, sales tax, license and registration fees and other government charges. The "lease price" means the actual sales price paid by the lessor and includes the same additions as the "purchase price." Excluded are debts from other transactions as well as customer discounts, rebates and incentives.

Okay, I think I have a defective motor vehicle. How do I start the process?

The first thing a consumer must do is give the manufacturer notice of the defect or condition by sending what is commonly called a "last chance letter" to the manufacturer by "return receipt service." The last chance letter should be sent before the fourth repair attempt or before the expiration of the 30-day period.

After my last chance letter, how long does the manufacturer have to repair my vehicle?

After you take the vehicle to the designated repair facility, the manufacturer has 5 business days to repair the defect or condition.

Must the buyer or lessee resort to the manufacturer’s arbitration procedure before filing a claim in the court system to pursue Lemon Law remedies?

No, unless the manufacturer’s mediation procedure conforms to Federal Trade Commission regulations and the manufacturer expressly requires the consumer to resort to the mediation process. Many manufacturers’ mediation procedures do not meet the requirements of the Federal Trade Commission regulations.

If I go through mediation, is the decision binding on me?

No. The manufacturer is bound by the decision, but the consumer is not.

If the buyer decides to bring a lawsuit against the manufacturer and wins in court, can attorney fees also be recovered?

Yes. The law authorizes the court to award reasonable attorney fees to a buyer who wins in court.

Can the manufacturer deduct an amount for the use of the vehicle prior to its return?

Yes. The statute sets out a complex formula to be used in calculating a "reasonable allowance for use," which takes into account the purchase or lease price, the number of miles driven, and other factors.

If the Lemon Law does not apply, are there other laws that might help a buyer or lessee?

The Lemon Law is only one law protecting buyers and lessees. Consumers may also pursue claims under the Michigan Consumer Protection Act, Michigan Uniform Commercial Code, Federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, and other contract remedies. For more information, consumers may contact the Attorney General’s Consumer Protection Division.

Can the manufacturer or dealer cause consumers to waive their rights under the Lemon Law using a special clause in a contract?

No. Any contract clause which seeks to waive a consumer’s rights under the Lemon Law is void.

RIGHTS OF THE LEMON LAW

MICHIGAN LEMON LAW
Act 87 of 1986

(Click here for the text of the Michigan Lemon Law)


ATTORNEY GENERAL

Department of the Attorney General
Consumer Protection Division
P.O. Box 30213
Lansing, Michigan 48909
Telephone: 877-SOLVE-88 (toll free)
(877-765-8388)

_________________
2002 Jeep Liberty Renegade
3.7L V6 4x4, 5-speed manual
*Draw-tite class IV hitch
*Mopar rock rails
*Clear turn signals
*Mopar mud flaps
*Husky cargo liner
*'Trial Rated' and 'Renegade' emblems
*Bazooka 200 watt subwoofer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:35 pm 
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Under this rationale it seems like some of us could have our KJs classified as lemons for the ball joints..... hmmmmm :roll:

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'03 Sport 4x4 140k miles. Yeah, she's had some work done


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:50 pm 
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Keep in mind that they can, and will, deduct a fee for the miles on the vehicle when the lemon law complaint is filed. Given the number of miles you have on the vehicle, it may be less that you can sell it for.

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