Ignition switch

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:53 am

Hi all,

I started my 2005 KJ CRD 2.8 recently, it started well then the engine died after 3 seconds. Trying to start again, no way, just a clicking sound near the starter motor. I replaced the starter and the starter relay, still no way to start. I jumped the pins 87 and 30 of the starter relay and the starter worked but the engine refuses to run (key on position 1). Now I will replace the ignition switch.

However I have read somewhere on the web that with a bad ignition switch the starter motor cannot work but the engine still can run. In my case, while jumping the starter relay pins and putting the key on position 1, the starter works but the engine still doesn't...

Do you confirm that a bad ignition switch can avoit the engine to start and run?

Thanks!

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:09 am

If your ignition switch change results in your getting a new key, it will not start until the ecm is programmed to accept the transponder in the new key (expensive). It sounds like the lock portion of the mechanism hasn't presented a problem, so make sure they retain your existing lock and keys.

Quite honestly to me, it doesn't sound like a switch though. More like a bad electrical connection.

Have you checked for codes?

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:13 am

Yes, my guess is that just the actuator pin is broken. So I intend to replace the actuator pin only, keeping the ignition switch and the lock and keys.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:19 am

An actuator pin for the switch could cause the no start situation, but it wouldn't cause a running engine to die. That's what makes me think I would look for a bad power connection, starting at the battery.

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:24 am

Thanks. It was my idea too but the battery is new, all seems ok near the power distribution box, fuses and relays....

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:26 am

Where the power goes down to the starter, have you checked that those are tight?

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:36 am

Yes, I checked everything and I replace the starter.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:11 am

Well give it a day. There are loads of people on here that know these vehicles as well or better than most dealerships. I'm certain someone will have encountered your problem and have an answer for you.

Best wishes.

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:30 am

Many thanks!

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:06 pm

Update:

Checked the actuator pin for the ignition switch, it is not broken!! So to sum up:

- The engine started then died after 3 seconds. No way to start it after, just a click at the starter solenoid.
- Just replaced the battery, the starter motor and the starter relay (brand new parts).
- Checked all fuses and relays, all ok.
- Starter motor and engine still not working while actionning the key.
- Starter motor works if I jump the pins 30 and 87 of the starter relay but engine doesn't fire (while the key is on position 1).

Any idea would be a great help, thank you all!

flash7210 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:03 pm

sfcl wrote:

Update:

Checked the actuator pin for the ignition switch, it is not broken!! So to sum up:

- The engine started then died after 3 seconds. No way to start it after, just a click at the starter solenoid.
- Just replaced the battery, the starter motor and the starter relay (brand new parts).
- Checked all fuses and relays, all ok.
- Starter motor and engine still not working while actionning the key.
- Starter motor works if I jump the pins 30 and 87 of the starter relay but engine doesn't fire (while the key is on position 1).

Any idea would be a great help, thank you all!

Is there a red dot lit on the instrument cluster?
If so that would indicate a SKIM problem.
Any codes?

Check ASD fuse
Check ASD relay
Check battery cables for corrosion and loose connections, including down at the starter.

And if you can, remove the ignition switch from the side of the steering column. See if you turn the switch with a screwdriver or something.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:28 pm

sfcl wrote:

Update:

Checked the actuator pin for the ignition switch, it is not broken!! So to sum up:

- The engine started then died after 3 seconds. No way to start it after, just a click at the starter solenoid.
- Just replaced the battery, the starter motor and the starter relay (brand new parts).
- Checked all fuses and relays, all ok.
- Starter motor and engine still not working while actionning the key.
- Starter motor works if I jump the pins 30 and 87 of the starter relay but engine doesn't fire (while the key is on position 1).

Any idea would be a great help, thank you all!

Where are you located? Adding your location to your signature may help you in the future!

The SKIM PIN is stored in the ECM
SKIM/ immobilizer talks to the ECM and gets a command from the SKIM if the SKIM recognizes the key chip (transponder) at startup and then tells the ECM to allow the engine to keep running.
If it does not match the PIN it will shut the engine down (immobilize) after 2-3 seconds! LOCKS IT OUT! :roll:

Not sure if it locks out the starter, but it is quite possible it could? Others on here may know more about this than me.

Do you have a spare key with the chip in it? If so, have you tried it?

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:46 pm

Thanks everyone! I'm located in France...

Yes, I tried with the 2nd key, still the same problem.
I'm waiting for the new ignition switch and then I will see if the SKIM red light is on on the dashboard.

If this is a SKIM problem, I guess that only a Jeep dealer can solve the problem?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 3:55 pm

sfcl wrote:

Thanks everyone! I'm located in France...
If this is a SKIM problem, I guess that only a Jeep dealer can solve the problem?

Unfortunately, True! :roll:

sfcl · **Posted:** Wed Nov 30, 2016 4:07 pm

Thinking to the SKIM system, I would guess that if the key chip is not recognized, I would get no ignition at all? So is it possible that the starter solenoid is clicking if there is a SKIM problem?.

GordnadoCRD · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:30 am

If the key is not recognized and that is the only issue, the vehicle will start, then die after appx 1-2 seconds. Turn the key off, then try it again, it will do the same, every time. It will also do this if you use a key that has no transponder in it, or if the transponder receiver around the lock has a fault in it. If it is not turning over, there is another problem.

You have changed the starter
You have changed the starter solenoid
You have a new battery
None of which has made a difference, so it is likely that they weren't bad to start with. Here, most parts houses can check components like this to verify good / bad before just selling you new parts, because happy customers come back, and send their friends.

Have you changed your column or any of the components in the column, or the ECM, or any other electrical logic part in the start circuit? There are 3 parts in a Mopar start circuit, that when first used at the factory burn their identities in with each other. ECM, Transponder control module, and I believe Body Control Module. If any of these are changed, it won't work until re-flashed and reprogrammed with each other by the dealer. I'm not intimately familiar with the way that works, but I've dealt with a dozen or so Mopar vehicles in the last decade+ that were built from various wrecked vehicles. (All Dodge Ram Trucks, Mini-vans, Sprinters, or Nitros) I had the best aftermarket transponder read / ECM programming tools available at the time, and they were useless to re-write the needed info into the ECM. All had to go to a Dodge / Chrysler / Jeep dealership in the San Diego area. (Where I was) All said it cost around $400, and took a few days, but I do not know for sure what all was done.

Do you have a voltage meter or check light to indicate possible voltage drops at various points in the start circuit power side?
An ohm meter or other way of checking the solenoid signal circuit from the switch? (sometimes a volt meter works here too, if attached correctly). If you don't have alligator clips, a friend with helping hands and another set of eyes can be even better.
But that is where I would check next. I'm still wondering if there is a voltage drop in the connection to one of the battery terminals, especially since it has been recently replaced. Another thing is if there is a grounded power wire to the solenoid. Best to check these things when you have someone to sit in the vehicle and turn the key for you.

sfcl · **Posted:** Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:01 am

Thanks once again!

I have done some checks as well, and the simple fact that I can energize the starter and make it work correctly by jumping the starter relay pins means that the harness from the starter relay to the starter is ok. Seems that the problem is before the starter relay. I'm currently waiting for the delivery of the new ignition switch so I can try. I admit that I can't see what to do if the failure has no relation with the ignition switch, apart maybe the ECU itself...

Will keep you informed, thanks for the help ayway.

crasher · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:13 pm

Crank sensor?
Cam sensor?
Either of those would kill a running engine, or keep it from starting, but it ought still spin, at least.

sfcl · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:17 am

So, did some more tests and now I'm totally lost...

To sum up:
- Starter motor, starter relay, battery, ignition switch and actuator all new.
- Tested the earth wire between battery and engine.
- I get 12V at the starter solenoid wire (tested at the srater directly) while actionning the key to start position but the starter doesn't spin.
- If I jump the 30 and 87 terminals of the starter relay, the starter spins but the engine doesn't start (key on "on" position).
- No error codes.

Apart a fried PCM, I can't see where the problem is...

Any idea welcome!!!

flash7210 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2016 10:15 am

It would seem that the ECM is not receiving the signal to allow the engine to start.
I suspect a SKIM problem.
Or a blown ASD fuse.
Or a bad ASD relay.

Ignition switch

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