Overheating right away in 15F weather?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:52 pm

I've had a marginal thermostat for awhile. slow to warm up, haven't driven this jeep much since I have CRD #1 to drive.

Monday I was driving in town when I saw the temp climbing up. pulled over and saw one of the small hoses had split the outer casing coming off of the viscous heater to the thermostat.

Drive it back home - it approched 3/4 on the way back, and parked it.

I borrowed a used hose from CRD #3 and installed it, refilled and tried to test drive. Overheated pretty quick, figured it might not be fully filled and the thermo not opening right wouldn't help.

So I borrowed the thermostat off of CRD #3, reinstalled, and refiilled. Same thing, seems to overheat right away. idling it will warm up to normal operating temp but just a basic drive around the block has it overheating right away.

In addition I have no heat out the cabin heater. I keep thinking I have trapped air but I have never had this much issue bleeding it, plus the system is full in the reservoir.

Any thoughts for me? Trying not to jump too far ahead but it almost seems like either the water pump isn't pumping or it got hot enough I have a head gasket passing gas into the system keeping it from filling with fluid proper. This engine has 45k on it and has had ARP head studs installed.

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:44 pm

Sounds like the water pump isn't pumping for some reason - Got an IR gun? Can you verify that the temps are high, or maybe it is just a screwy sensor?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:57 pm

geordi wrote:

Sounds like the water pump isn't pumping for some reason - Got an IR gun? Can you verify that the temps are high, or maybe it is just a screwy sensor?

Ya I was wondering if it were possible the water pump would not pump - its new this summer so it "should" be good.

I do not have a IR gun - though I do have multiple temps sensors, I was going to switch it back to the other one, but it seems like both were reading the same.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:03 am

No heat is a very strong indicator of a big air bubble trapped in the cooling system still.

Unless the WP has a plastic impeller I highly doubt the WP went bad that fast if it's a metal impeller,could happen but highly unlikely.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:08 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

No heat is a very strong indicator of a big air bubble trapped in the cooling system still.

Unless the WP has a plastic impeller I highly doubt the WP went bad that fast if it's a metal impeller,could happen but highly unlikely.

I agree, typically I would think it were air in the system but I've been through the ringer working on purging.

Metal impeller, however its possible it separated from the shaft and isn't pumping....though unlikely.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:48 am

Ok, different approach. I agree that the metal impeller Graf pumps should be just fine, they are top notch.

How have you been filling it? I know it is a dumb question, but do you fill it with the vent on the radiator open? I pull the vent out entirely and fill until the coolant tops that hole, then cap it up and keep filling until the tank won't take any more. Unless you somehow have an ice dam in the head somewhere, there shouldn't be an air bubble doing it that way.

What percentage coolant / water are you running? Should be about 66% coolant for optimal freeze protection and boil protection.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:01 am

geordi wrote:

Ok, different approach. I agree that the metal impeller Graf pumps should be just fine, they are top notch.

How have you been filling it? I know it is a dumb question, but do you fill it with the vent on the radiator open? I pull the vent out entirely and fill until the coolant tops that hole, then cap it up and keep filling until the tank won't take any more. Unless you somehow have an ice dam in the head somewhere, there shouldn't be an air bubble doing it that way.

What percentage coolant / water are you running? Should be about 66% coolant for optimal freeze protection and boil protection.

Vent has been opened - though I cant say I have ever totally removed it.

I have also been taking off the return hose to purge air out of the radiator. Though it seems like not much comes out when I do. I've popped the upper rad hose off a couple of times and there is little coolant sitting in the hose when it cools down. The upper radiator hose gets warm, but the radiator is not getting warm.

I sucked on the heater hose to make sure it had fluid and quickly got a mouthful.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:03 am

Yuck! If you take off the radiator hoses, you should be getting coolant pouring out of each of the holes.

If that is not happening (wasn't 100% on which hoses you have removed or not) then the water is somehow not circulating and you have a blockage - which would fit with the situation.

Radiator good?

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:14 am

geordi wrote:

Yuck! If you take off the radiator hoses, you should be getting coolant pouring out of each of the holes.

If that is not happening (wasn't 100% on which hoses you have removed or not) then the water is somehow not circulating and you have a blockage - which would fit with the situation.

Radiator good?

I pull the small return hose off of the radiator to purge out air. I've also pulled the large upper radiator hose as well to check for fluid. I've gotten some. But at other times it's dry. Opening the radiator cap let fluid flow down and the outlet of the thermostat starts letting fluid through.

Still, I'm not counting out that I have trapped air.

Radiator should be fine. Worked fine in the heat of the summer. I don't know what I'm at for mix % now. Suffice to say it should be fine for freeze protect right now.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:53 am

You can check the water pump (just in case) through the head / thermostat by disconnecting the outgas hose from the bottle (cap it on the bottle) and put the hose into the open radiator cap. With the engine running, should be flowing coolant from the middle / bypass port of the thermostat. I don't know any other way to check the pump. The only other thing is to put a garden hose on each device individually to check for a blockage, but I can't figure where one might be to cause this.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:36 am

I understand what you are getting it, but you lost me with your terminology.

There is the lower metal nipple, which has the largest hose that loops down to the large metal elbow that connects to the back of the water pump.

There is the upper large plastic nipple, which loops directly to the viscous heater.

And there is the small vertical hose that loops back to one of the chambers of the reservoir, are you saying to disconnect the small hose from the reservoir and let that end dump into the main chamber where the cap is?

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:45 am

Sir Sam wrote:

And there is the small vertical hose that loops back to one of the chambers of the reservoir, are you saying to disconnect the small hose from the reservoir and let that end dump into the main chamber where the cap is?

Yes.
So you can observe coolant flowing.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:53 am

^^^ What he said, he's got it.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:37 pm

Small hose from thermo to reservoir is not pumping any fluid out when temp shows middle of the gauge. Nor does it feel like it is pushing out air.

Blowing back through the hose there feels like a slight restriction and then I blow fluid into the reservoir through the small left hose.

After it had sat overnight I squeezed the upper rad hose and it felt like a full bladder of fluid, after driving around the block and getting to warmup it feels like air filled again.

Headgasket leaking combustion air into the head and building up air? water pump not pumping? Other thoughts?

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:06 pm

Could the thermostat be froze in the closed position not allowing any flow to the radiator??? :idea:

racertracer · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:19 pm

Could be.

I'd first remove the good coolant, then send water through the system with a garden hose and let it flow through the other hole and see if there's any blockage and move ahead from there. gut an old thermo.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:45 pm

WWDiesel wrote:

Could the thermostat be froze in the closed position not allowing any flow to the radiator??? :idea:

If so then two thermostats were bad, and the thermostat I pulled form CRD#3 came from a recently running CRD untill the turbo failed.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:18 am

Sir Sam wrote:

WWDiesel wrote:

Could the thermostat be froze in the closed position not allowing any flow to the radiator??? :idea:

If so then two thermostats were bad, and the thermostat I pulled form CRD#3 came from a recently running CRD untill the turbo failed.

You asked for "Other thoughts", it was just a thought! Trying to rule out all possibilities... :wink:

flash7210 · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:42 am

Sir Sam wrote:

Small hose from thermo to reservoir is not pumping any fluid out when temp shows middle of the gauge. Nor does it feel like it is pushing out air.

Blowing back through the hose there feels like a slight restriction and then I blow fluid into the reservoir through the small left hose.

After it had sat overnight I squeezed the upper rad hose and it felt like a full bladder of fluid, after driving around the block and getting to warmup it feels like air filled again.

Headgasket leaking combustion air into the head and building up air? water pump not pumping? Other thoughts?

Either the water pump isnt pumping or something is blocking coolant flow.

Maybe the lower radiator hose is collapsing?

Gutting an old thermostat is an easy way to make sure its not the thermostat.
Just split the housing at the seam, remove the thingy, and seal it back up with JBweld. (it worked for me

)

mass-hole · **Posted:** Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:40 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

Small hose from thermo to reservoir is not pumping any fluid out when temp shows middle of the gauge. Nor does it feel like it is pushing out air.

Blowing back through the hose there feels like a slight restriction and then I blow fluid into the reservoir through the small left hose.

After it had sat overnight I squeezed the upper rad hose and it felt like a full bladder of fluid, after driving around the block and getting to warmup it feels like air filled again.

Headgasket leaking combustion air into the head and building up air? water pump not pumping? Other thoughts?

I cant imagine its an HG. you would be getting massive pressure in the overflow and blowing off coolant if it was THAT much gas in the coolant system.

Overheating right away in 15F weather?

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