Stranded - KJ died at idle, no restart

TKB4 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:53 am

A couple of things.
A plain non key fob key will start a CRD if it is cut correctly but it will still only run for 3 seconds. That is what I leave hidden on outside of my vehicle. That way if I get locked out I can use that key to get in door but someone else finding it could not steal jeep it will only run 3 seconds. That type of key can be programmed to run the CRD and it has a chip that can be read but no battery. I haven't tried the key fob without a battery in ignition ( but will soon).

biggfisch could possibly do one of two things that would either solve your problem or let you know to stop looking.
1. loan you his ECU to test and if yours starts and runs 3 seconds then it is the ECU thats bad or an intermittent ground/short etc.
2. If it was convenient loan rent sell you his ecotune and I would replace his with the hot tune ECU if he wanted and didn't need his CRD to drive for a couple of days.
3. Obviously you could use his to get home then mail it back to him but you would have to reprogram it twice. Send other ECU back.
4. If which tune mattered you could still swap back and reprogram again.

No matter what, it would be neat to see my old ecu get two different CRDs going again even if just 3 seconds.
Trying his ecu would at least save you $125 reprogramming the eBay ecu if ecu isn't the problem .
BTW the GDE ecotune and Hot tune are the same tune for non aggressive throttle position just extra power there if you use it, at least thats what I was told but the seems like the Eco Full torque tune would be the one like Hot Tune but it wasn't available when they told me that.

BTW I think some of the places like biggfisch sent his ecu to don't even check them just say they don't work etc trying to sell you an overpriced used ecu rather than reman one. Some computer hard drive data retrieval online places are also that way but charge a non refundable hefty fee to see if data is retrievable though there are legitimate ones because they know the data is valuable to you.

I would also make doubly sure the Dealer etc guarantees they won't alter anything else in ECU maybe you would at least luck out and get an ecu that never had the dreaded f37 installed.

Good Luck sounds like you will get it whipped !!! :BANANA:

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

TKB4 wrote:

A couple of things.
A plain non key fob key will start a CRD if it is cut correctly but it will still only run for 3 seconds. That is what I leave hidden on outside of my vehicle. That way if I get locked out I can use that key to get in door but someone else finding it could not steal jeep it will only run 3 seconds. That type of key can be programmed to run the CRD and it has a chip that can be read but no battery. I haven't tried the key fob without a battery in ignition ( but will soon).

That's not a bad idea. I just might steal it from you :mrgreen:

Quote:

biggfisch could possibly do one of two things that would either solve your problem or let you know to stop looking.
1. loan you his ECU to test and if yours starts and runs 3 seconds then it is the ECU thats bad or an intermittent ground/short etc.
2. If it was convenient loan rent sell you his ecotune and I would replace his with the hot tune ECU if he wanted and didn't need his CRD to drive for a couple of days.
3. Obviously you could use his to get home then mail it back to him but you would have to reprogram it twice. Send other ECU back.
4. If which tune mattered you could still swap back and reprogram again.

I hear you on all of the above. What I'd prefer to not risk is frying someone else's ECU if there is an electrical issue that I haven't yet found - and because I can't get the KJ to start, I don't know if there is a problem that only shows up when it's running. At least if I kill mine, I'm not inconveniencing anyone but myself. I'll still be just as unhappy about it, but at least it's only a me problem at that point.

The other thing is that I'm under a lot of time pressure to get home. My only realistic option for having the ECU programmed is the local dealer, and I'd rather not risk them overwriting someone's GDE tune with an F37-crippled stock one (though I am going to pay them a visit and see if they can do a stock tune minus F37).

Speaking of GDE: I shot them an email last night to ask about the possibility of either the dealer reprogramming one of their tunes, or having them handle it. Their response:

"The dealer can try to change the VIN, not all are successful. See below regarding tuning:

"We are not able to reflash/install our tune at this time due to changes in EPA rules. Best to contact your state representative and ask them to reign in the EPA if you ever want the GDE tune.

"Sorry for the issues. If you are in a different country, let us know as rules are different outside the US."

Unsurprising, and I say that completely understanding the situation they're in. What this means, though, is that it's now more complex to move an ECU with one of their tunes on it from vehicle to vehicle.

Quote:

No matter what, it would be neat to see my old ecu get two different CRDs going again even if just 3 seconds.
Trying his ecu would at least save you $125 reprogramming the eBay ecu if ecu isn't the problem .
BTW the GDE ecotune and Hot tune are the same tune for non aggressive throttle position just extra power there if you use it, at least thats what I was told but the seems like the Eco Full torque tune would be the one like Hot Tune but it wasn't available when they told me that.

Yep, and I'd like to get in touch with biggfisch after I get back and see if we can't put our heads together on some of this.

Quote:

BTW I think some of the places like biggfisch sent his ecu to don't even check them just say they don't work etc trying to sell you an overpriced used ecu rather than reman one. Some computer hard drive data retrieval online places are also that way but charge a non refundable hefty fee to see if data is retrievable though there are legitimate ones because they know the data is valuable to you.

Agreed. I'm not going the reman route, in part because I couldn't find anywhere that didn't have absolutely awful reviews. This one's a straight pull - no test, no rebuild, liberal return policy. It's a gamble, but at least I can get my money back minus shipping if it doesn't work.

Quote:

I would also make doubly sure the Dealer etc guarantees they won't alter anything else in ECU maybe you would at least luck out and get an ecu that never had the dreaded f37 installed.

If I can avoid that possibility, I will :lol:

Which reminds me: I'm not sure if the stock tunes in Yeti's thread have F37 installed or not. Hmm...

Quote:

Good Luck sounds like you will get it whipped !!! :BANANA:

Thanks... It's been a ride, to say the least!

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:01 pm

Where are you broke down at, I don't remember you saying... :ALONE:

Maybe there is a member close by that could help?

TKB4 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:39 pm

He is near Oklahoma City. Biggfische is in the area and I am sure some others .

TKB4 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:56 pm

Casm

Yes thats true it would really be bad to overwrite someone else tune. I am pretty sure at least the higher stage tunes don't act like the F37.

You can still however try the ECU you receive before you pay to have VIN changed. Supposedly the dealers do not detect the GDE tune with their diagnostics but that doesn't mean that whatever they do to change VIN doesn't also overwrite the whole program.

Maybe we could find a dealer that would be willing to take mail in ecu s etc just for changing VIN s if they would be doing most of ones that need a similar service.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

TKB4 wrote:

He is near Oklahoma City. Biggfische is in the area and I am sure some others .

Negative - I'm in Virginia at present, about 1300 miles away from OKC.

Believe me, I wish this had happened back in OKC. It would make things a lot simpler.

If the USPS is to be believed, the new ECM and my wife's key will both get here Friday. Heading over to the local dealer in a few to see if they can do the reprogram on Saturday.

BTW, I have intermittent cellular / Internet access due to location. If I'm slow to respond, it means I'm out of range of both.

Sergio del Castillo · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2019 1:15 pm

Hi, I am in Maryland, 10 miles north of Washington DC. I am not an expert in any of those items, but willing to help if possible. How far in Va from DC?

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Sergio del Castillo wrote:

Hi, I am in Maryland, 10 miles north of Washington DC. I am not an expert in any of those items, but willing to help if possible. How far in Va from DC?

I'm about 3 hours South of DC (Shenandoah Valley). Probably a bit far, but I certainly appreciate the offer!

layback40 · **Posted:** Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:53 pm

casm wrote:

Speaking of GDE: I shot them an email last night to ask about the possibility of either the dealer reprogramming one of their tunes, or having them handle it. Their response:

"The dealer can try to change the VIN, not all are successful. See below regarding tuning:

"We are not able to reflash/install our tune at this time due to changes in EPA rules. Best to contact your state representative and ask them to reign in the EPA if you ever want the GDE tune.

"Sorry for the issues. If you are in a different country, let us know as rules are different outside the US."

Unsurprising, and I say that completely understanding the situation they're in. What this means, though, is that it's now more complex to move an ECU with one of their tunes on it from vehicle to vehicle.

I would volunteer to be an out of country owner.
Probably you would be better off to have some one much closer though, like Canada or Mexico.
Australia currently has no issues with tunes.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 24, 2019 9:52 am

casm wrote:

Sergio del Castillo wrote:

Hi, I am in Maryland, 10 miles north of Washington DC. I am not an expert in any of those items, but willing to help if possible. How far in Va from DC?

I'm about 3 hours South of DC (Shenandoah Valley). Probably a bit far, but I certainly appreciate the offer!

You happen to visit Crabtree Falls?

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Mountainman wrote:

You happen to visit Crabtree Falls?

Yep! Haven't been there in about a decade, but it's only 30 miles or so from where I am now. Really gorgeous.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Aaand the USPS just dropped off the replacement ECM, which appears to be the correct one. Will fit it in a couple of hours.

TKB4 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:25 am

Great

sure hope it fixes your problem. I am sure you will let us know. If you had time etc it would be beneficial to install a yeti tune that changes some CEL s in it and reconfirm it would start the jeep then take it to dealer for VIN change and you could test whether they changed the tune by say removing MAF sensor to see if it set CEL.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

TKB4 wrote:

Great

sure hope it fixes your problem. I am sure you will let us know.

Thanks! I'm waiting for it to warm up a bit more outside before I go do the swap, but should know more in a couple of hours.

Quote:

If you had time etc it would be beneficial to install a yeti tune that changes some CEL s in it and reconfirm it would start the jeep then take it to dealer for VIN change and you could test whether they changed the tune by say removing MAF sensor to see if it set CEL.

Agreed. Unfortunately, my MPPS cable is in OKC. Thanks for reminding me about that, though - I'll have to let the dealer know to ignore some of the codes that will pop up on a stock tune.

Hmm... That's actually a *really* good point. This ECM may not have the same software revision on it that my old one did, which I believe was 811. May have to do a bit of editing to different tunes when I get back to remove some CELs.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:58 pm

Worry about the codes later - just plug this in and see if it starts for 3 seconds or not. If you have a code scanner, clear the codes first b/c you don't know what the donor vehicle had showing up.

I pulled a computer from a CRD in a boneyard (the only yard CRD I have ever found) and it had a bunch of codes b/c of the wreck, if the airbags deploy then it may be stuck in an E-stop mode. After the first power-up where it started for 3 seconds, that computer would only let the starter spin for about 1/10th of a second b/c it was in an E-stop.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

geordi wrote:

Worry about the codes later - just plug this in and see if it starts for 3 seconds or not. If you have a code scanner, clear the codes first b/c you don't know what the donor vehicle had showing up.

Will do. Computer's in, but not the battery. I've stopped for lunch, so will do that first when I get back to it.

Quote:

I pulled a computer from a CRD in a boneyard (the only yard CRD I have ever found) and it had a bunch of codes b/c of the wreck, if the airbags deploy then it may be stuck in an E-stop mode. After the first power-up where it started for 3 seconds, that computer would only let the starter spin for about 1/10th of a second b/c it was in an E-stop.

Is there anything I need to know about the E-stop before I go to the dealer? They've claimed that they'll do a full reflash on it, but I want to make sure given that this ECU came from a vehicle I've never seen so have no idea if the airbags went off or not.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:33 pm

I don't know for certain which code set the e-stop in the computer that I pulled from the yard, but GDE was able to reflash the ECU and sent it on to the user in Argentina where it worked perfectly for him.

So I'm inclined to think that a full reflash will work just fine. I do hope that this works for you, but if the CRD doesn't want to do anything with this one either, then you have eliminated the computer from the list of potential issues. That would be unfortunate, only b/c we don't have many other suggestions.

casm · **Joined:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:05 pm **Posts:** 694

Well, the replacement ECM has the dealer stumped. Either I got a second dead one, the first one was OK and there was another problem I didn't properly track down, or something else entirely is causing the issue.

They're seeing the same problem I was: no connection to OBD.

At this point, I am seriously low on options. They're going to look at it again on Monday, but I can't stay here forever. This may result in buying another vehicle to get home in, selling that one when I get back, then trying to deal with the KJ remotely. Having done that before on other vehicles, it's a giant pain.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:18 pm

What about renting a pickup and a tow dolly one-way from Uhaul, and getting a 2 ton cable puller and chain from Home Depot to load it? That will get you home - just have to pull the transfer case into neutral or (better) pull the rear driveshaft.

Or you can do a 4-up trailer, probably have to rent the 10' box truck to do that though. Either way, that should get you and the Jeep back home for about $400

TKB4 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:08 pm

Its possible but now most of the rental places won't rent pickups to tow and may not rent them to return to other towns either. I tried to do this when I had the valve drop on mine near Kansas City. They wanted me to rent the smallest moving type truck they had to pull the trailer or dolly and one way it would have been about $600. We ended up renting car driving home and took my F350 and car hauler back next day for about $250 in fuel. I tried 3 different rental companies and included big SUV like expedition. I guess they would never know you towed with it if you provided ball etc and you didn't have an accident etc but you still might have to return a truck to the same place you rented it from. I was told no one way pickup because the individual branch owned the pickups not the parent company who knows if true but thats what I was told. It made me wonder if they would have installed a lockable block in the hitch to prevent its use since I doubt they would want to remove hitch . I bet they just didn't want someone pulling a heavy load a lot of miles. I did try uhaul and I can't remember but I think they didn't have dolly available and trailer made whole package too heavy to pull with whatever else they had available.

Stranded - KJ died at idle, no restart

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