Though I have made periodic off-road sojourns in my Liberty CRD, I recently had a chance to return for a day of four-wheeling to some of my old off-road “haunts” in the San Juan mountains of southwestern Colorado, near where I used to live. This was a good test, as I have driven every 4WD that I’ve ever owned over the years (35 years of 4-wheeling this year) on these roads—including everything from full-size Chevy and GMC pickups to a Ford Bronco II, with some International Scouts, and (most recently) a Jeep Cherokee mixed in.

So how does the CRD compare? First, the good. The CRD engine, transmission, transfer case, limited-slip rear axle combination is flat-out the best power train combination to be found in any 4WD I’ve ever owned. I’ve posted about this before, so I won’t repeat my praises again, but the CRD power train can’t be beat for high-mountain driving and 4-wheeling, which is what I do.

The not-so-good. Here, I task DC to task. The CRD suspension, especially the front, is not up to my 4-wheeling standards. Now, 99.9% of 4-wheelers may never take a CRD where I occasionally do, but—if you do—you, too, will be disappointed. First, lack of ground clearance. The CRD (and the Liberty, in general) has average ground clearance, at best, when sitting still. Take the front suspension to compression, which is way too easy to do on a rough trail, and the real world ground clearance is even less. Worse yet, when the vehicle is in an off-camber situation, the front suspension compression on the downhill side aggravates body lean, making what otherwise would be a mild body lean downright spooky. In off-roading situations like these, I still am no fan of a softly sprung independent front suspension, which is all the rage these days—the solid axle of the Cherokee is preferable.

What I plan to do to remedy the CRD’s suspension deficiencies is to install a CRD Frankenlift II suspension. I believe the combination of the mild lift (I do NOT believe in radical lifts) and bigger tires should solve the ground clearance issue. I’m hoping the suspension compression issues will be solved, too, though I’m concerned about this, as I understand the Frankenlift uses the stock front springs. I would like to add an ARB bumper and winch—if I do, there is no way those stock springs will be beefy enough.

Finally, I should note that mine was the only Liberty, CRD or otherwise, that I saw out on the trail all day. The most common factory-stock 4-wheelers on the trails were Wrangler Rubicons. DC was foolish for not offering the CRD power train in the Wrangler Rubicon. It would have been one the best all-around hardcore “out-of-the-box” 4WD’s ever. Oh, and other than some skid plate scrapes, the CRD came through unscathed, just not with the “finesse” that 4WD’s with better suspensions would have exhibited.

Don't think I will ever reach that level of off-roading with my CRD, but it sure is good to hear the pros and cons of someone who ran one through it's paces.

Even with the cons, it makes me feel better regarding my purchase. Mine gets some off road use on the farm in some rather hilling situations and mud. But not to what you did.

Thanks for the input!

Cliff

We did a little offroading this past weekend in the Sangre de Christo mountains and were fairly pleased with the vehicle. We could have used a lift and bigger tires but took it easy and pulled through with no problems.

Given what I've seen other Liberty owners doing (Moab, Big Bear, etc.), and what I and others here in Arizona do with some regularity, I'd be very in seeing what you're asking you Liberty to do that has left this bad taste in your mouth.

An "out of the box" non-Rubicon Wrangler isn't much more trail ready than a Liberty. The difference is in what can be done to a Wrangler with aftermarket parts. But let's keep this in perspective. The Liberty has been on the market for just over four years while the Wrangler (and its immediate ancestors) has been around for half a century. I don't think DC is going to let the Liberty live anywhere near that long but just look at what has already been done with the Liberty. What other 4x4 vehicle has been released newly badged and within a couple of years is seen in Moab?

edit

Thanks for the report. Most of my off-road is done hunting in New Mexico traversing everything from desert washs and canyons to muddy county roads to two feet of snow up veritable ski runs. 90% of this I've done in old Broncos and F-250's though I started with a post-WWII Willy's and we had a mid-70's Wagoneer--all of which performed admirably.

Our choice when buying the CRD was between buying a commuter car AND an F-250 or something that might do both. We rented a Ford Escape "4WD" last winter and barely made it a mile off the pavement before we were sideways and nearly stuck in the mud. The CRD seems like exactly the combo we were looking for.

I have trips planned in October and November along the Continental Divide 26 miles past the middle-of-nowhere in Catron County, NM. I look forward to giving full reports.

My 4-wheelin experience is very limited and confined here in the east. I don't rock climb, but do take the crd out on hard trails and back roads to remote ponds for fly fishing. I echo what has been said about engine/tranny/tranfer case. The amount of power & torque available is simply amazing and I have often been able to get places that other cant.

The big problem I have had is as reported: ground clearance. There are some places I would like to take the Jeep, but can't due to suspension issues. However, I don't do it often enough to have a lift kit put on. So for about 95% of the time the vehicle suits my needs.

That's absolutly true, the front Ground Clearance when wheeling is really an issue for the Jeep. Once I pick my new for me CRD and my Stock XJ Before I lift it and went to the same spots to test wich one was mora capable out of the box. The XJ did the spots much better and with out a single Crash of rocks, the libby did very well but the front pumpkin crashed every single rock that was there... That's the big difference between the XJ and the KJ, Ground Clearance. If you want a trail rig personally I don't recomend the Libby, my XJ is a lot more capable. I you are looking for a very capable SUV that will get you a lot of places the Libby is great, plus it's a lot more confortable than the XJ.

I don't want to start a flame war with this, I'm just posting my experience with both Jeep's.

_________________
2004 KJ Limited CRD, 16" Cherokee Classic Wheels, 255/60 R16 Dunlop Grantek AT2 Wife's DD and Weekend Warrior
1990 XJ Limited AW4, 242, 6" Lift, RE GenII Quick Discos, 33" MTR on Stock Rims, RE SYE, ARB Rear, ARB Snorkel, Yada Yada Yada (Trail Rig)
2004 Ford Ka XR My DD.

What pumpkin would that be? Are the Libertys in Chile SFA? My Liberty has 17.5" between the rockers and the ground. That's an inch more than an HMMWV and seven inches more than an H2. The stock Liberty also has an approach angle of 38.1 degrees...six less than a stock Rubicon but with my lift, larger tires and surgically enhanced front bumper I'm probably pushing the 40 degree mark.

Are you comparing a stock Liberty with a modified XJ?

Maybe he means our Dana 30 Aluminum (d30a) front differential. I have done some very heavy off roading, but only twice in the CRD Liberty. With my 2.0" Daystar I can go anywhere I want, but I worry about blowing the d30a with the added torque of the CRD vs. the 3.7 gas motor.

I, too, still have an XJ, so it is easy for me to compare the Liberty to it. My XJ has the stock suspension (no aftermarket, no factory "off-road"), but I have added the full suite of skid plates to it. With it, I don't think I would have scraped once on the trails I drove the other day. With the Liberty, I hit skid plates someplace on the vehicle at least a half-dozen times. The XJ would have handled the off-camber situations much better, too. The downside of the XJ would have been fuel economy--it guzzles fuel when off-roading (it's highway fuel economy for me is in the mid-20's, little worse than the Liberty). Comparatively, the Liberty sips fuel when off-roading. I also think the D, 3, 1-2 automatic transmission shift selection in the Cherokee is especially lame when off-roading--probably the weakest point on the XJ.

I'm not trying to start a flame-war here--both vehicles have their strong points. I'll say this: given a choice between an XJ or gas Liberty, I'd take the XJ every time. CRD or XJ--well, I bought a CRD, didn't I?

I wish they would.
Anyway, I can see the pumpkin or the housing where the Ring&pinion is. That's what crash the rocks. I don't know if you call it pumpkin or how, but you can get the picture with what I said.

Regarding the Stock KJ VS The Midified XJ, I would never compare a built rig with a stock one, I compared both stock.

_________________
2004 KJ Limited CRD, 16" Cherokee Classic Wheels, 255/60 R16 Dunlop Grantek AT2 Wife's DD and Weekend Warrior
1990 XJ Limited AW4, 242, 6" Lift, RE GenII Quick Discos, 33" MTR on Stock Rims, RE SYE, ARB Rear, ARB Snorkel, Yada Yada Yada (Trail Rig)
2004 Ford Ka XR My DD.

The frankenlift certainly does not reuse the stock front springs. They use an aftermarket OME spring with a daysatr top plate and a polyurethane puck.

_________________
2008 Unlimited Rubicon - 3.5" AEV/Nth lift - 35" MT/R with Kevlar - AEV Wheels - York OBA
2008 Patriot - Fuel Saver

I think he's talking about the Frankenlift for CRD and Frankenlift II.

_________________
Chris

2005 Renegade
Frankenlift
245/75/16 Goodyear MT/Rs

Here's a look at the front of my rig. Again....what pumpkin?

I'm going to recheck on mine to make sure what's hitting, I will take some pics and post them so you can see what I'm talking about.
Anyway I don't have that cover that you have, wich I think is the armor to protect the piece that I'm talking.

_________________
2004 KJ Limited CRD, 16" Cherokee Classic Wheels, 255/60 R16 Dunlop Grantek AT2 Wife's DD and Weekend Warrior
1990 XJ Limited AW4, 242, 6" Lift, RE GenII Quick Discos, 33" MTR on Stock Rims, RE SYE, ARB Rear, ARB Snorkel, Yada Yada Yada (Trail Rig)
2004 Ford Ka XR My DD.

I haven't been able to really take mine off road. But I think I'm going to risk it all and try to go down the "control road" on Mt. Lemmon in tucson AZ. It looks like it might just be an easy gravel road- anyone ever been on it? It is also called the "Old Mt. Lemmon Highway". I'll be in the middle of a big road trip so I hope I don't rip anything important off (oil filter).

HUX

Sethx9, Here are the pics I promise yesturday.

Here you can see a Crossmember that goes under de OilPan and in the right is the Pumpkin that I'm talking about.

A Little closer


A Closer Look to the "Pumpkin"

My Libby, and next to the Libby is my XJ Covered with the grey cover.


Anyway, for me that's a pumpkin, or at least it looks like a pumpkin. If you don't call it pumpkin please let me know the name of that piece to not make the same mistake I made naming it pumpkin.
That pumpkin is the lowest part that I have in the front, and it hits almost everything. I know a lift will solve that problem, but my wife like the way the Libby is and don't want a lift.

_________________
2004 KJ Limited CRD, 16" Cherokee Classic Wheels, 255/60 R16 Dunlop Grantek AT2 Wife's DD and Weekend Warrior
1990 XJ Limited AW4, 242, 6" Lift, RE GenII Quick Discos, 33" MTR on Stock Rims, RE SYE, ARB Rear, ARB Snorkel, Yada Yada Yada (Trail Rig)
2004 Ford Ka XR My DD.

You are missing what is called the "MOPAR Engine Skid Plate" that covers the front differential (pumpkin) and protects it from impact. It's cheap, you should buy and install it as soon as possible.

Most people here have that skid from the factory so they never really see the actual differential (pumpkin), but I knew what you were talking about.

Click link below to see. Small picture, but if you click on it - becomes slightly larger. It's the skid with the large oval access hole in it...

http://jparts.com/product_info.php?manu ... 3fca497b03

What has me intrigued is it appears there is some rust on your front pumpkin, and not just on the steel cover plate with the drain plug, but on the rest of it, which here in the U.S. is Aluminum and will not rust.

Is your front pumpkin/differential/axel housing made of steel??? Or am I just seeing some mud splashed on it.

Thanks.
I thought that I was wrong, but apparently I wasn't.
I'm going to buy some armor because I hit my tranny pan with a rock the last time out.
I'm not sure if it's aluminum or steel. I think that it's steel because I have hit it very hard and it doesn't have a single leak. I'm going to try to take some closer pics so you can see where I hit it. I'm almost sure it's steel. Maybe in newer models they change it to aluminum.. Dunno

Thanks again

_________________
2004 KJ Limited CRD, 16" Cherokee Classic Wheels, 255/60 R16 Dunlop Grantek AT2 Wife's DD and Weekend Warrior
1990 XJ Limited AW4, 242, 6" Lift, RE GenII Quick Discos, 33" MTR on Stock Rims, RE SYE, ARB Rear, ARB Snorkel, Yada Yada Yada (Trail Rig)
2004 Ford Ka XR My DD.