So I can walk into any showroom in the 50 states, buy an Expedition that gets 12 mpg, and yet I can't buy a CRD or VW diesel for that matter because measured statically they emit more sulphur (if they're not using biodiesel) and oxides of nitrogen. As far as I know, come October, the only light truck/car diesels to be sold in America will be the MB E320 CDI and the Jeep Cherokee. Anyone know why the EPA and the States don't measure emissions/mpg?

Oh yeah. Bush/Cheney are in office. What oil company flunky did they put as head of the EPA?

Bush and Cheney may be plotting something, but the EPA rules were dreamed up before they got there. I knew of these standards back in winter of '99/2000.

The main problem with diesels were all the particulates. They actually produced less CO2 and NO than gas engines. Sulfer is in gas as well.

The main ingredient in all this EPA war on diesels is the anti-trucking groups. CRASH (Citizens for Responsible and Safe Highways) and PATT (Parents Against Tired Truckers) and other like groups which also include the Green Party and Ralph Nader. The trucking industry has been dealing with these idiots for a long, long time. Most of the emissions crap to come out of the EPA started with them.

I have always wondered how you can get less pollution by burning more fuel per mile. When big trucks started getting computerized engines in the mid 90's, mpg started rising. Then came the first round of EPA nonsense in '02. That cost us on average 3-4% loss in MPG. Now the '07 round will cost about the same loss in mpg and cost approximately $7-8000 per truck. That is the manufacturers estimate.

Anyone who has worked for the govt knows that the President, be it Clinton or Bush, usually has very little to do with implementing these things. It's those 535 dolts in congress that push this BS thru. They usually tack it on a bill that leaves whomever is President with little recourse but to sign it.

Ok.. soap box over. We will just have to deal with it.

Cliff

Uh, I don't see what you're trying to get at here...

The EPA does measure emmissions, but it is not their perogative to measure the MPG of any vehicle to rule it as "Environmentally Friendly" or not. I do agree that there should be higher standards on MPG for all vehicles as things haven't changed or even gotten any better than they were in the 1970's.

Also, the difference when using biodiesel is that BD generates 10% more NOx emmissions than standard #2 diesel or ULSD. BD doesn't produce sulfur though, I think the best thing that can happen in the future of diesel emmissions technology is the reduction or elimination of NOx emmissions. Many companies like Bosch are looking into it, I know that urea can nullify NOx and most companies are looking to either blend urea into fuel or have "urea tanks" as a part of an exhaust system so that when the emmissions pas through the NOX can be absorbed/eliminated.

It is true Hero, that the urea method will take care of the NOX. But that is not what I was answering to the post by AZ CRD.

If you recall, he was implying that politics of big oil and Bush were behind the higher fuel use that is in reality an unintended consequence of increased environmental restrictions. I was answering to the politics.

Regarding what can be done to reduce the emissions, if the manufacturers would get with the program and implement such things as urea injection (which they do in Europe), and other methods, environmental issues could be addressed without taking a hit in the mpg arena.

As I stated before, politics are involved, and until we get legislators with a little common sense, we are going to have to live with this nonsense. Caterpiller engines (ACERT) were able to bypass the EGR and meet current EPA standards with technology. Unfortunately, the '07 standards will make CAT go the EGR route because they will not implement urea injection. Yes, they contemplated using it.

I realize this is a heated area. But we need to realize where the problem lies and not be side tracked. When govt gets heavily involved with any issue, then things get screwed up. They approve or disapprove of the methods manufacturers try to use to comply with EPA instead of just letting the market place determine the best course of action to address the problem.

I remember when the Army wanted to put Oreo cookies in MRE's. The specifications for the cookie was 90 pages long, and to comply with this Nabisco would have to charge the govt almost $1 per cookie. Nabisco bowed out. Now, does the Govt know how to make an oreo cookie better than Nabisco? Likewise, does the govt know more than mechanical engineers on how to make an engine? Obviously not.

Take the chains off of manufacturers and you will see clean, fuel effecient vehicles.

Cliff

Thanks for the insightful responses, Cliff. My anger seems to be misplaced in this case. It could very well be bureaucratic incompetence spurred on by environmental special interest.

I suspect however, based on no evidence, that if you follow the dollars someone's going to get rich or protected from competition by these '07 standards. The retards in the House over the past couple of decades are not known for their environmentalist leanings. Something more has got to be going on.

When I filled up with BD recently there was a VW bug next to me. Don't know the specifics but that car probably gets something like 40 mpg. It just chaps my butt that the government is making that car unavailable and yet every yahoo and soccer mom in the country can buy the biggest, most obnoxious, gas-guzzling POS that will spew out much more pollution in its lifetime than will that frugal VW.

Agreed!

Cliff

Also agree, but you can thank the filthy smoking diesels of the 70s and 80s for the stricter regs against diesels. Even though modern diesels use less fuel, they seemingly pollute more to the naked eye (and nose). The EPA and environmental groups need to end their 30 year old vendetta against diesels, because they're getting ever less efficient and more expensive with all the emissions reducing crap bolted onto them. There ought to be a way to measure emissions per mile, or something that would be consistent with all vehicles, regardless of engine type, that would show diesels have the edge.

The interesting thing to me was that I was recently in western europe where all the cabs and about 50% of the private cars seem to be diesel. However, in the cities I never noticed any persistant diesel odor, or soot problem. Is it because of the ULSD? I don't know.

The Europeans are much more concerned with the SOx emissions than the NOx emissions than we are and started removing the sulfur from their oil years ago that is why they have little soot, that and the modern technology is much more efficient and produces less unburned fuel in the exhaust.

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Gasoline is for washing parts - Alcohol is for drinking - Nitromethane is for racing - Diesel is for hauling.

2005 CRD Limited 4x4 - Deep Beryl Green - Selec-Trac
Trac-Lok - Skid Plates - BFG Radial Long Trail TA's- Rotella T 5W40 Synthetic.

2007 GC CRD Limited. Silver.

True, but that gas-guzzling POS is paying @ 4 or 5 times the road/excise taxes per mile as that fuel squeezer VW. That is all that politician is concerned about.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

You got that right! Politicians are only interested in collecting the road taxes. Just like they will not ban cigarettes because they like the revenue. Or mandate seatbelt laws without mandating helmet laws for motorcyclists just so they can get revenue from issueing seatbelt violations.

Sure bet, that they are not interested in safety. Just want to keep us around so they can bleed us for more!

What is more interesting is talk out of Congress recently of repealing the income tax credits for hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles because they pay so little road taxes. Supposidly some states are looking at raising registration fees on those vehicles for the same reason. My friends in the charter bus industry lost their long standing FET expemption on diesel fuel this year. Now no longer able to file refunds for the $0.18/gal FET paid at the pumps. This is @ $2000/yr per coach in additional taxes per year.

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2005 Liberty Sport CRD, Lt Khaki, sunroof

Thankful to now be an EX-CRD owner.

On that note, Oregon is currently testing the feasibility of taxing per mile, due to revenue losses caused by more fuel efficient vehicles.

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Ryan
2006 Ford F-250 PSD CC FX4
**GONE**
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
SAMCO Hoses//GDE Tune//PML Trans Pan//TransGo HD Shift Kit//MBRP Exhaust

1986 2R Mustang SVO

I hate to break it to you guys, but the roads have to be paid for somehow.

Currently the majority of road funding comes from fuel taxes.

Vehicles that get very high mileage pay less fuel taxes and yet still use the roads.

As vehicles move from a petroleum based system to who knows what (hybrid? electric? hydrogen? Mr. Fusion?) the roads will still need to be built and maintained.

Oregon is one of many states who is doing research into how best to go about revenue collection when the fuel taxes are less relevant in the long term.

Government intervention is not always a bad thing. Left to itself the "free market" will always take the most profitable route. Which is not always the best route for people... We need things like clean air and water. Free markets don't provide those well. Why do you think one of the reasons we can outsource to China so well? It is not just labor costs that are cheaper... Here in the USA and in Europe manufacturers have to clean up their emissions, and keep water and air cleaner... In China they don't have those expenses... But the air and water there are so polluted in some places as to be inhospitable to life...

Here is one example:
http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060606_1.htm

Now, the government does have huge potential to muck things up too.

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http://www.pdxbiodiesel.org

I just can't truly believe that with oil companies making huge profits, that the Government isn't raking in the same in fuel taxes....

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Ryan
2006 Ford F-250 PSD CC FX4
**GONE**
2005 Jeep Liberty CRD
SAMCO Hoses//GDE Tune//PML Trans Pan//TransGo HD Shift Kit//MBRP Exhaust

1986 2R Mustang SVO

Unfortunately, 50% of fuel and road use taxes to not make it out to the roads. Check with Taxpayers Network, Citizens Against Government Waster, American Trucking Assoc, OOIDA, etc.

Just is the last transportation appropriations bill, $100 Million was spent to establish a Teapot Museum in S.C. When the government stops spending funds meant for something on other things like studying how cow flatulence is affecting the ozone, and why monkeys screw each other, then they can tell me how they need more of our money.

I worked for government over 13 years (7 in the Army), and the waste is horrendous. The Katrina mess is probably one of the more glaring examples.

I have no problem with the fuel tax if EVERY penny of it would go to building and repairing infrastructure. Until then, I believe that the greatest example of price gouging on fuel is the Government. They expend nothing to produce a gallon of fuel, but they get anywhere from 35 - 60 cents a gallon in tax (state and federal).

Has anyone actually tried any ULSD in a CRD yet? I mean ULSD with a sticker on the pump. And just as general information, come October 15, the only vehicle that will require it might be the ML320 CDI.

I saw an article saying the 2007 GC CDI would be released 1st quarter 2007 (http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto ... crd_diesel).

Makes sense - even late 2006, might be lots of long stretches without ULSD and you know when it comes to walking or driving if ULSD isn't available, standard D2 is going in the tank. Especially if its on a long hot stretch of Interstate.

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2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
Fuel cooler/Lift Pump/10um Pri/Racor R490 2um Sec Fuel Filters
IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders

What a DA thread this is, another Chicken Little discussion. I'm out of this thead you all have fun.

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91 MB 300D 2.5L Turbo. Her's

05 MB E320 CDI. Mine

Talk about the govt raking it in -

In NC we have something like the 6th highest fuel tax in the country. And they have an automatic escalator clause built in. Every 6 months, if the average price per gallon has went up, the tax is increased to keep it at XX percent of the price per gallon. As the price goes up, the tax goes up along with it, a double whammy.

When I brought the MB home the other day, while at the pump was studying the map detailing what the states in this region charge for tax on diesel. All the states bordering NC were something like 10 to 15 cents per gallon, and there was NC right in the middle charging well over 30 cents per gallon.

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Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

What a DA response. I did a search on your posts - you act like you own this place, do you?

J/K ... Man, you have a high post count - you must be wired at home with all kinds of internet access