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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:26 am 
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CHessMaster wrote:
Here's some more fuel to the fire.

Hooked up the MAF sensor ground wire to the Park/Neutral switch (circuit #T41), This effectively turned the MAF sensor on only in the Park and Neutral positions of the shifter. The MIL came on after the 2nd trip. I then hooked the MAF ground wire up to transmission circuit #T42, which then turned the MAF sensor off only in the shifters forward gear positions. The MIL still came on after the 2nd trip.

In summary, the MAF was on at start-up and before shut-down, but the light still came on after 2 drive cycles. :? I verified the MAF worked as stated by using a scan tool.

Any comments on this?


Was the Code the same as just unpluging the MAF or is it different?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:01 pm 
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curtis wrote:
Was the Code the same as just unpluging the MAF or is it different?


The same (P0103).


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:15 pm 
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CHessMaster wrote:
Here's some more fuel to the fire.

Hooked up the MAF sensor ground wire to the Park/Neutral switch (circuit #T41), This effectively turned the MAF sensor on only in the Park and Neutral positions of the shifter. The MIL came on after the 2nd trip. I then hooked the MAF ground wire up to transmission circuit #T42, which then turned the MAF sensor off only in the shifters forward gear positions. The MIL still came on after the 2nd trip.

Any comments on this?


Based on the breakout diagrams, I was under the impression that the TRS switch pins (all 5 of them) would have 0v when open and +5v when closed. Are they closing to ground?

.... yeah, the switch closing to the inverted diagonal E usually means ground :oops:

After a little more thinking, and you other folks may have already noticed this, it can all be done at the ECM (since the TCM feeds it the "p/n sense" ). Assuming we can figure out why CHessMaster's setup didn't work, simply bypassing ECM 1-61 (MAF ground) and jumpering it into ecm 2-17 (P/N sense and clutch interlock). Yes? So, If someone makes a breakout board for the CRD ECM, that would be swell... :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:56 pm 
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CHessMaster wrote:
curtis wrote:
Was the Code the same as just unpluging the MAF or is it different?


The same (P0103).


After a PM from Ranger1, he noticed that the code was different. Was getting the P0103 instead of the P0102. I did a little more testing and found out that when the ground was removed from the MAF sensor, the sense wire (signal to the ECM for airflow) went to 12 volts. This isn't what I assumed was going to happen, I expected it to go to 0 volts. This is why the light came on with the P0103.

Anyway, I hooked up the MAF POWER wire to the P/N circuit #T42 through a relay. This modification effectively only powered the MAF in Park, Reverse, and Neutral. The light still came on after the 2nd drive cycle with a P0102, so the P/N switch solution isn't going to do us any good.


Last edited by CHessMaster on Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:48 pm 
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I had some time this afternoon and decided to put this plugging/unplugging the MAF to the test. I rigged up the previously mentioned relay so that I could turn the MAF power feed on and off manually at any time.

Bottom line, the MIL always came on no matter what combination I did of turning the MAF sensor on and off versus key cycling and starting/stopping the engine. The MIL would come on as soon as the MAF signal went low during the second engine start cycle and the P0102 code would be set.

Conclusion, no amount of manipulation by turning the MAF sensor on and off, will keep the MIL from coming on in my vehicle. :?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:46 am 
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more food for thought,
Got home from a 900 mile weekend last night; mostly interstate speeds with a bit of town driving, say 90/10%
There with the MAF plugged in, back with it unplugged after start and plugged in before shut down. Ran #2 diesel the whole way and got an average of 28 mpg both ways. no CEL yet, but might pop up this morning when the wife fires it up, crossing my fingers. :wink:
The rig did run more like a diesel with the ORM, better sound and had better throttle response, but I wonder why the MPG was not affected. the only other thing I've done was pull the MAP sensor and clean off the soot (dry and packed solid) and change the air filter out.
Still hopeful for a work-around for the ORM, the thought of all that soot in there makes me nuts, but I hesitate to run the ORM all the time and risk my extended warrenty with only 13,000 on the odo.
Keep up the quest for clean oil and happy engines, I would like to help if I can.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:24 pm 
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I'm assuming that you are using a single pole relay and just interupting either the + or GND to either the power feeds or the signal pair. What about using a double pole, or even two double pole relays to actually open all the wires? This would then be identical to unplugging the connector by hand, that is you could use the relay(s) to open all 4 wires at the same time.

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PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 2:41 pm 
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Inet_CRD wrote:
I'm assuming that you are using a single pole relay and just interupting either the + or GND to either the power feeds or the signal pair. What about using a double pole, or even two double pole relays to actually open all the wires? This would then be identical to unplugging the connector by hand, that is you could use the relay(s) to open all 4 wires at the same time.


Right, so we need to make the ground not be a ground, and the power not provide 12v, allowing the MAF to fail "open" if the ground is missing. Anyone know of anyplace to get worn-out MAF sensors of this type that can be canabalized for the female end of the plug? (even late model FORDs) We'll still need that to make it clean and "reverseable". The tapping of the park/neutral pin is easy enough without a whole new module.

Dan

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 6:51 pm 
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Where are the shifter position logic signals available? Are they easy to get to? I'm just going to do this with two dpdt relays.

Thanks,
Steve


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PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2007 11:44 pm 
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They are posted on the first post of this thread.


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PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2007 9:03 am 
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stevesmith7 wrote:
Where are the shifter position logic signals available? Are they easy to get to? I'm just going to do this with two dpdt relays.

Thanks,
Steve


pin 41 of the plug on the Transmission Control Module (passenger-side top of the engine bay behind the little tower with vacuum fittings). It should serve as a body ground when the shifter is in p/n and the ignition is on.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:58 am 
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I"m not that clued up with electronics but I can see what you guys are trying to do. Very well done!!

So is there any more power that can be felt from the seat of the pants with this ORM done ?

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:59 am 
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I can feel a bit more "snap" from a take off, and the Scangauge shows SUBSTANTIALLY lower intake temps with the ORM.

But my fuel economy is no better. I just did my first full tank with the ORM. 20.5 mpg. Still the same.

Of course, I'm not getting crap sucked back into my intake, so that makes it all better.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:10 pm 
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for the non-electrical crowd, is there anybody out there that could make a plug in ORM dongle that would open the connection at the air intake automatically when out of park? willing to make my own if I had a diagram that I understand, and willing to buy one prefabbed too.

thanks go to you big brained types with sparky know-how, I don't let the smoke out of the wires usually, and I can solder and crimp, heck I even know what an amp connector is, but start talking about logic signals and I need some hand holding.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:35 pm 
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techTim wrote:
for the non-electrical crowd, is there anybody out there that could make a plug in ORM dongle that would open the connection at the air intake automatically when out of park? willing to make my own if I had a diagram that I understand, and willing to buy one prefabbed too.

thanks go to you big brained types with sparky know-how, I don't let the smoke out of the wires usually, and I can solder and crimp, heck I even know what an amp connector is, but start talking about logic signals and I need some hand holding.


That's precicely the goal of this thread. It looks like a system that will do the job is possible by splicing a few leads. The hold-up is getting the sensor-side plug of the MAF and possibly being able to tap one of the pins from the Transmission module. After that, it can be done with a few automotive relays and a small project box.

In retrospect, I should have made that first post in analog terms instead of digital, as all of the functions involved work that way just fine. I was just going for what I know best. Without actually making the diagram, the basic jist is: tap pin 41 from the plug on the TCM. It provides a body ground when the shifter is in P/N. rig it up to a couple automotive relays that are triggered closed by that grounded connection(i.e. they fail open), one for the ground lead and one for the body power lead on the MAF harness (wires identified in-thread). I'm still in the "I can't make a proof of concept because I can't justify slicing into the harnesses" stage, but If you were able to take what we've gained in this thread and put it to work, that would be great :wink:

Dan

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:36 pm 
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Same here.

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:57 pm 
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okey dokey, that last description got me over the hump, I can swing that kind of build up, maybe even get a junkyard harness with some connectors for a clean (removable) harness.

thanks again, I'm off to the neighborhood U-pull-it. :P

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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 1:05 pm 
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techTim wrote:
okey dokey, that last description got me over the hump, I can swing that kind of build up, maybe even get a junkyard harness with some connectors for a clean (removable) harness.

thanks again, I'm off to the neighborhood U-pull-it. :P


The harness end is a standard plug that can be bought from electronics suppliers. The sensor end is the hard part. Also... I think it's CRD-specific. You may want to snap a picture close-up of your plug and look in some late model Fords for MAF sensors. I think they use the same plugs. Good Luck!

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 Post subject: inline harness update
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 3:06 pm 
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So, just to keep everyone up to date on what I've accomplished... it's not all that much.

AMP (Tyco) connector for the MAF harness on the CRD is:[url]
http://catalog.tycoelectronics.com/TE/b ... 3#features[/url]

I was able to talk to an engineer at Tyco and he had some spare MAFs from one of the OEMs. It's a hitachi and the model number is AFM60M-20 and made in Kentucky. I don't know if Hitachi gets the moldings themselves from a suplier or if they're manufactured internally for the part. Regarless, you can see the part here:http://www.hitachi-hap.com/products/Sensors/MAFS/index.html (the one on the left). He's sending me a sample of each.

I'm working on an electrical schematic and will post as soon as I download an application to draw it with...

Okay, so I guess I'm not destined for a career in visio... I can do network diagrams, but not electrical very well. If anyone wants to lay this out, I'd appreciate it:

pin definitions on MAF harness:
M2: MassAir 5v sensor supply
M3: fused RUN-START from ignition
T41: P/N ground from the TCM
M5: sensor ground
M6: MassAir 5v supply

Using 3 bosch relays
T41 should connect to pin 85 on each relay
M3 should connect to pin 86 on each relay
for M2, M3, and M6, connect the harness lead to pin 87 and the sensor-side lead to pin 30 for each of the relays respectively

as a prototyping measure, a simple automotive toggleswitch with one side serving as T41 and the other connected to body ground would allow manual on-off of the MAF.

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 Post subject: U-pull-it luck...
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 7:42 pm 
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:evil: not much, sorry, those female plugs are a rarity, seem to be part of the assembly if they can be found at all.
I hope dgeist's tyco engineer contact has about 11000 of those ends, I get the feeling that they will be used on every US CRD out there.

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