Patience Wearing Thin

retmil46 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:29 am

As much as I love this vehicle, in particular it's fine diesel engine, there comes a time when you have to start wondering if it's worthwhile keeping it, after it's been to the dealership XX number of times in the first 10 months, resorting to my own devices to solve problems with it, etc.

While I totally dislike vtdog's "sucks to be you" attitude toward people that are having problems, he is right in one respect - when you have a vehicle that is continually throwing problems your way, there comes a time when you have to decide if it is worthwhile living with it, of if you'd be better off cutting your losses.

My CRD has already made more trips to the dealership for problems in the past 10 months than my last new vehicle, an '87 Subaru wagon, made in the first 10 years. Granted, some of these problems were one-time items that should be put to bed for good now. But, there is a limit to my patience. The fact that I've decided to go ahead and purchase a used MB diesel as an alternate car sort of indicates my waning confidence.

Best way to put it is that right now the CRD is on probation. Hopefully it will continue without any other major problems until ULSD is on line and see if this helps cure it's ills. But if the EGR valves and other items are going to be a continuing headache and the trips to the dealership continue, I'm going to have to replace it with a more reliable vehicle that I can depend on to get me to work.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:43 am

Sorry you're having so many troubles - would definitely hate to lose you as a great source of diesel knowledge around here. I've been lucky that none of my problems have left me stranded (tranny filter TSB and now an EGR) so reliability has never been a question for me.

But having to buy a backup car sucks. I'd feel the same way if I couldn't trust a brand new vehicle to get me to work on time. Hope ULSD helps and DC figures out this EGR stuff. I too am worried what happens after I hit 36K miles.

tired_old_dave · **Joined:** Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:45 pm **Posts:** 79

Could not have said that as eloquently as you have.
We are at the same place with ours.
We wish you the best in the future.

RTStabler51 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:19 am

I'm dreading things like that happening. I've had two glow plugs go bad, and some shuddering, but otherwise I love it.

I love the thing, and its economic factor when compared to the gasser, but I'm worried since this is only going to be a two year run engine, that DC will forget us after 07 and we will be left to fend for ourselves for fixes and what not, something I'm used to in my Ford experiences (i.e. Taurus SHO / Contour SVT)

RFCRD · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:40 am

Certainly echo your sentiments and I'm about to the same point with mine. Fortunately, I did not trade anything to get the CRD which gives me the flexability to work through the issue. In the past 9 months, mine has visited the dealer more than all my other new vehicles combined over the past 20 yrs. At times, I wonder why DC even prints a warranty, dealer is clueless and their tech support (STAR) appears to do little more than contain warranty claims. The level of tinkering on this vehicle even rivals some of the $100 beaters I've owned. My patience too is running short.

bbo · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 382

well keep us posted ... I can't speak for anyone else, but I do enjoy and learn from your posts on diesel workings.

What year MB's are you looking at ... are the VW diesels and option? We ( fiancee and I) have been looking for used TDI Jettas as we will be in the market for one when her house sells. We want to get one for my son as the 15mpg (on a good day) blazer he drives of mine is not an answer when he puts probably a couple hundred miles a week on a vehicle. he travels between my and his mothers house and I'd like for him to be able to come here more often, but not at the expense of his wallet.

the prices for used TDI's seem outrageous right now, not sure if we can afford one even with the better mileage. What kind of mileage do the MB's get and what $$ are they going for now? Are they candidates for greasecar conversion? that would make them even more appealing.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:26 pm

RTStabler51 wrote:

I'm dreading things like that happening. I've had two glow plugs go bad, and some shuddering, but otherwise I love it.

I love the thing, and its economic factor when compared to the gasser, but I'm worried since this is only going to be a two year run engine, that DC will forget us after 07 and we will be left to fend for ourselves for fixes and what not, something I'm used to in my Ford experiences (i.e. Taurus SHO / Contour SVT)

I sure would like to know why you guys think this is only a "2 year run engine", they built and sold more CRD's then they had hoped to do, to the point of stressing VM to be able to fill other contracts for engines. In the mean time VM has finished an expansion and been building engines like crazy. The CRD will be back for '07 in Jeep and Dodge both, hopefully with less teething problems.

What really is supprising is I have heard rumors of the Dakota being offered in both 2WD & 4x4 configuration with 6 sp manual or 5 spd automatic. Guys I told you 6 months ago that diesels were coming big time from D/C starting in '07 MY, both in the Jeep line and Dodge line. When word gets out about a Dakota diesel PU with the CRD and 30+ mpg there will be a standing room only to buy the truck. Same goes if they put the MB V6 in the Ram 1500 1/2 ton truck, and they are the only mfg that can do that in the next several years.

I have a friend that is waiting for the GC V6 MB diesel because it will have better fuel mileage then his Toyota Avalon and not to mention their Mountianeer AWD SUV that is a 15 mpg rig if you keep it around 60 mph. He say he can't trade his Mountianeer because it has dropped so much in value that he will have to keep it and hope to find a sucker to buy the thing. He says he will trade the Toyota in for the Jeep GC and that way not take such a beating. I think his logic is flawed but who knows, maybe not.

Reggie · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:54 pm

ON,

I think I'm swearing off diesels for a while. After piling up a lot of mileage on a 1985 BMW 524, a 1998 Jetta TDI, a 2003 Jetta TDI, and a 2004 Dodge Ram, my CRD is a huge disappointment. It cannot get above 20.5 mpg, and it can't stay out of the shop. With all the emmission regulated crap that the EPA has added to the engine, they've turned a good, reliable, long lasting engine into an unreliable engine of questionable longevity. I can't afford to be replacing 4 glowplugs, 2 egrs, and 1 tranny every 20k miles. Who knows how long the injectors are good for on these things with the pressures they are running. It used to be that the engine and fuel injection systems would last 250k without batting an eye. How long will they last now that the rpessures are so high? As fanatical as the environmental whackos are in their opposition to diesels, I can't imagine diesels getting any less complicated in the near future. If I get another diesel anytime soon it will be another 2004 - 2006 Dodge Cummins. At least it doesn't have an EGR of CCV to fail.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 1:58 pm

Reggie wrote:

ON,

I think I'm swearing off diesels for a while. After piling up a lot of mileage on a 1985 BMW 524, a 1998 Jetta TDI, a 2003 Jetta TDI, and a 2004 Dodge Ram, my CRD is a huge disappointment. It cannot get above 20.5 mpg, and it can't stay out of the shop. With all the emmission regulated crap that the EPA has added to the engine, they've turned a good, reliable, long lasting engine into an unreliable engine of questionable longevity. I can't afford to be replacing 4 glowplugs, 2 egrs, and 1 tranny every 20k miles. Who knows how long the injectors are good for on these things with the pressures they are running. It used to be that the engine and fuel injection systems would last 250k without batting an eye. How long will they last now that the rpessures are so high? As fanatical as the environmental whackos are in their opposition to diesels, I can't imagine diesels getting any less complicated in the near future. If I get another diesel anytime soon it will be another 2004 - 2006 Dodge Cummins. At least it doesn't have an EGR of CCV to fail.

Hey Reggie the '98 TDI had Egr & CCV both, the Cummins you will need to go back even earlier then '04 to get away from the EGR & CCV.

About MPG's I don't know what to say except probably low pressure in rail, air in fuel line, poor quality fuel, or loose nut behind the wheel. (humor, guy, humor) We get 28 to 32 highway and have a local friend driving an '06 model doing the same with his and he drives 96 miles every day to and from work has almost 6,000 miles on the thing and has done nothing but the Elephant hose mod to prevent oil in the CAC system.

He is running a K&N filter for some stupid reason, other that that he is bone stock.

BioJeep · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:33 pm

Keep in mind the type of driving you do. If you're predominately doing stop-and-go driving, a diesel with an automatic isn't the way to go---your mileage will always be minimal. However, highway driving should be another story. Also, some say the way you break-in the engine is key. If you don't achieve good ring sealing, your mileage & power will suffer. Don't baby the engine during break-in. Frequent moderate loading while avoiding prolonged high rpms should do it.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:39 pm

I have to say I still love mine but I understand the discontent. When you buy a new vehicle, you shouldn't have to be forced to make modifications to make it run properly and without nagging service problems. I have been lucky so far but I did check my CAC hose and there were traces of oil so I did the Jungle Fix (Elephant Hose). I don't like having to circumvent polution control devices to avoid problems and this should not be a requirement to a healthy CRD. Hopefully we, L.O.S.T., will come up with fixes that remedy the EGR/CCV/ect systems...but the point is DC should have done that.

Whether or not VM/MB or any other diesels are projected does not help the members that are here now with Sick CRD's. With only 11,000 units sold I have a feeling that DC is not going to put much effort or $$$ toward fixes for the CRD.

Has anyone tried to contact VM directly and ask them the same questions we are asking ourselves. I have tried to find Euro Forums for the Cherokee CRD but have had no real luck. I wanted to see if they were having similiar issues.

Mainly I want to make sure that the members that are not having issues lend a sympathetic ear to the ones who are having issues. That is why we are all here...I Hope.

Quote:

Per BioJeep: Keep in mind the type of driving you do. If you're predominately doing stop-and-go driving, a diesel with an automatic isn't the way to go---your mileage will always be minimal. However, highway driving should be another story. Also, some say the way you break-in the engine is key. If you don't achieve good ring sealing, your mileage & power will suffer. Don't baby the engine during break-in. Frequent moderate loading while avoiding prolonged high rpms should do it.

This might be the key to most members mpg woes. The other issue are "flashes" that seem to help members gains mileage. How is a normal "JOE" supposed to know things like that.

Reggie · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:07 pm

oldnavy wrote:

Reggie wrote:

ON,

I think I'm swearing off diesels for a while. After piling up a lot of mileage on a 1985 BMW 524, a 1998 Jetta TDI, a 2003 Jetta TDI, and a 2004 Dodge Ram, my CRD is a huge disappointment. It cannot get above 20.5 mpg, and it can't stay out of the shop. With all the emmission regulated crap that the EPA has added to the engine, they've turned a good, reliable, long lasting engine into an unreliable engine of questionable longevity. I can't afford to be replacing 4 glowplugs, 2 egrs, and 1 tranny every 20k miles. Who knows how long the injectors are good for on these things with the pressures they are running. It used to be that the engine and fuel injection systems would last 250k without batting an eye. How long will they last now that the rpessures are so high? As fanatical as the environmental whackos are in their opposition to diesels, I can't imagine diesels getting any less complicated in the near future. If I get another diesel anytime soon it will be another 2004 - 2006 Dodge Cummins. At least it doesn't have an EGR of CCV to fail.

Hey Reggie the '98 TDI had Egr & CCV both, the Cummins you will need to go back even earlier then '04 to get away from the EGR & CCV.

About MPG's I don't know what to say except probably low pressure in rail, air in fuel line, poor quality fuel, or loose nut behind the wheel. (humor, guy, humor) We get 28 to 32 highway and have a local friend driving an '06 model doing the same with his and he drives 96 miles every day to and from work has almost 6,000 miles on the thing and has done nothing but the Elephant hose mod to prevent oil in the CAC system.

He is running a K&N filter for some stupid reason, other that that he is bone stock.

ON,

For the most part I agree with you. All my Jettas had CCV & EGR. As you know the CCV is fairly easy to deal with, the egr on those cars are easy to get to, and the intake comes off for cleaning. But I never had an EGR falure on any of them. On a side note - the 2004.5 to present Dodge Ram CTD does not have an EGR or CCV. I owned one. I'm not sure how they were able to get away with it - but I was sure glad they did. Check here for info:

http://www.cummins-sp.com/engines/autom ... engine.htm

I honestly like diesels, but like I said I'm going to take the wait and see approach before buying another new diesel. The injection parts are getting scary expensive and they can take out a whole engine when they fail. I am, and always will be a diesel fan.

On another side note what type of scanner will I need to get inorder to check fuel rail pressure? Any suggestion would be helpful. I can't afford to dump my CRD so I've got to make it work.

RTStabler51 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:34 pm

oldnavy wrote:

RTStabler51 wrote:

I'm dreading things like that happening. I've had two glow plugs go bad, and some shuddering, but otherwise I love it.

I love the thing, and its economic factor when compared to the gasser, but I'm worried since this is only going to be a two year run engine, that DC will forget us after 07 and we will be left to fend for ourselves for fixes and what not, something I'm used to in my Ford experiences (i.e. Taurus SHO / Contour SVT)

I sure would like to know why you guys think this is only a "2 year run engine", they built and sold more CRD's then they had hoped to do, to the point of stressing VM to be able to fill other contracts for engines. In the mean time VM has finished an expansion and been building engines like crazy. The CRD will be back for '07 in Jeep and Dodge both, hopefully with less teething problems.

I'm only basing it off my Ford experiences with 'limited' run engine lines. This is my first non-Ford vehicle, and will believe the diesels, and support will still be here in a few years when they release the 3.0L CRD Cherekee etc...

oldnavy · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:15 pm

RTStabler51 wrote:

I'm only basing it off my Ford experiences with 'limited' run engine lines. This is my first non-Ford vehicle, and will believe the diesels, and support will still be here in a few years when they release the 3.0L CRD Cherekee etc...

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here. Do you mean you will believe it after a few years, or in a few years when the MB V6 Cherokee arrives. If you are saying you will believe it after the MB V6 arrives then you don't have much of a wait, they should be showing up in about 3 months.

kjfishman · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:28 pm

retmil46 wrote:

As much as I love this vehicle, in particular it's fine diesel engine, there comes a time when you have to start wondering if it's worthwhile keeping it, after it's been to the dealership XX number of times in the first 10 months, resorting to my own devices to solve problems with it, etc.

While I totally dislike vtdog's "sucks to be you" attitude toward people that are having problems, he is right in one respect - when you have a vehicle that is continually throwing problems your way, there comes a time when you have to decide if it is worthwhile living with it, of if you'd be better off cutting your losses.

My CRD has already made more trips to the dealership for problems in the past 10 months than my last new vehicle, an '87 Subaru wagon, made in the first 10 years. Granted, some of these problems were one-time items that should be put to bed for good now. But, there is a limit to my patience. The fact that I've decided to go ahead and purchase a used MB diesel as an alternate car sort of indicates my waning confidence.

Best way to put it is that right now the CRD is on probation. Hopefully it will continue without any other major problems until ULSD is on line and see if this helps cure it's ills. But if the EGR valves and other items are going to be a continuing headache and the trips to the dealership continue, I'm going to have to replace it with a more reliable vehicle that I can depend on to get me to work.

So did you still have EGR issues after the Provent?

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 5:33 pm

Quote:

Per BioJeep: Keep in mind the type of driving you do. If you're predominately doing stop-and-go driving, a diesel with an automatic isn't the way to go---your mileage will always be minimal. However, highway driving should be another story. Also, some say the way you break-in the engine is key. If you don't achieve good ring sealing, your mileage & power will suffer. Don't baby the engine during break-in. Frequent moderate loading while avoiding prolonged high rpms should do it.

This might be the key to most members mpg woes. The other issue are "flashes" that seem to help members gains mileage. How is a normal "JOE" supposed to know things like that.

I agree but if these same folks were driving a 3.7 thier mileage would be in the low teens.

Somone here (not in this thread) mentioned driving 60 MPH at 2000 RPM's to CA and getting 23-24 MPG. I did that a lot too because I didn't realize that I needed to get to about 64 MPH to get from 4th to 5th OD. I think that is another issue for a lot of folks getting low mileage.

I don't blame you guys that are disappointed with repairs. I would be too. I will just keep crossing my fingers, putting my pants on left foot first in the morning, rubbing Budda's belly and all those other lucky things with mine.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Mitch, I hate to see this happen to you and worse, lose your input on the forum. However, I understand your feelings exactly. You have to work hard to dissapoint a hard core group of diesel lovers who will go to the lengths shown on this forum to keep their CRD's running well. Somehow, DCX is managing :-)

Even if you do drop the CRD, I would be interested in hearing how your MB works out reliability wise. Please keep us posted on your MB's progress. I may be right behind you :-)

tired_old_dave · **Joined:** Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:45 pm **Posts:** 79

A man keeps his word. You told them to hold it for you for saturday. A man will also honor another man's request if he asks to be released. A car dealer may have lost another buyer but I'll bet he took a second right of refusal if anybody else was interested. And here, if no consideration was given even only a dollar, there is no contract to hold a vehicle. If it is at all possible, at least listen to old navy and wait until mid-august to the end of the year.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Quote:

When word gets out about a Dakota diesel PU with the CRD and 30+ mpg there will be a standing room only to buy the truck

</ humor bit on

I would have agreed with you 100% a year ago. It's a fantastic opportunity for DCX. And if we get our letter to DCX published, Dodge salesman can use that as a brochure to really drive the deal home on these new diesels.

Or I can think of a better idea. This would make a great DCX TV commercial. We've all seen how the Xterra has a bulge in the panel for a first aid kit. Well, the new diesel GC from DCX can have a round bulge, approximately 6 inches deep and 14 inches in diameter, right on the rear door. It will be a manly bulge, painted kakhi, and possibly garnished with a Golden Trail Rated badge a foot in diameter as a medallion.

You aim your key fob at it, an ultra high-tec led laser light from the manly bulge pierces the night with a thin blue searchlight down on the ground, around the sides, checks for vehicle movement or sounds of tranny struggle, and when none is detected, the bulge pops open - voila! inside is a spare Torque Converter, neatly wrapped in a green canvas Trial Rated sack! Spare parts!! no more waiting a week. Hit the emergency blinker button inside the cab and out pops a satin finsh, ultra sleek cigaratte tray with fluid hydraulic lid opening... a slight gaseous vapor of nitrogen escapes as the lid glides up to reveal ... 4 perfectly polished, silver sleek gleaming glow plugs!! No more waiting on spare parts... but then, just when you think it couldn't get any better, you hit the recirculate button on the dash 3 consecutive times in 5 seconds - a slight whirring sound, then a worm gear sounding device pops open a panel on the rear quarter panel and there, gleaming in the moonlight, a brand new EGR valve sits on a platinum colored pedastal. Sheer elegance.

A diesel with its own spare parts dispenser fit for a Lexus.... a diesel to remember.

Jeger · **Posted:** Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:20 pm

Sometimes this place is the only thing that keeps me going at night. Very descriptive writing BTW I love it LOL

EDIT It was just as funny the second time...read it again!

Patience Wearing Thin

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