Exhaust question

auggy · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:19 pm

Hello

I have an 05 Liberty Renegade ( 4wd ) that I'm looking into getting an exhaust system for.

First of all, the only company I can find ( as of this point ) that makes cat-back systems for the 05 liberty is borla. They offer two different ( although mostly the same ) products:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/p...=83&brandid=159

I have a few questions:

1. What is the difference between 1 exit or 2? Is it really just for looks or is there something that makes it worth the extra 200 or so dollars?

2. What sort of preformance increase will I actually notice

3. How will the fuel economy change if I was to install one of these

and finally: do any other companys produce similar products that would be more friendly on the ole wallet?

oh .. and what difference would it be to just install a new muffler along with a new exhaust tip?

Thanks! - Mike

auggy · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:19 pm

Oh and forget the comment about the only company being borla .. i have since found a few other companies that produce cat-back systems for the liberty... but im still curious as to all the other questions

auggy · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:53 pm

any help? I posted this on the jeepworld forums too just looking for another opinion

uvalax236 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:19 pm

I have a Flowmaster 40 series delta flow muffler on my 02. It cost me $80 from Rusty's. I went from 11 mpg (no muffler keep in mind) to around 14. It has a noticeable deeper tone and is a skid plate in itself.. Worth every penny IMO. I cant comment much on the others except that they were well out of my price range for exhaust.

auggy · **Posted:** Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:22 pm

Alright that settles it .. I think I'm going to get a new muffler and try a small lift with the rubicon wheels and tires =]

KaJunKJ · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 5:10 am

to get the best performance out of an exhaust system, you must work from the front to the back. yes you may notice a little difference if you just install exhaust because your allowing the engine to ... "exhale" easier. but to get the most out of it you must also allow it to "inhale" easier too. If you want the most performance out of you libby, get an intake first, maybe a throttle body spacer, then do the exhaust. but ultimately someone needs to come out with some headers for the 3.7. that would be perfect performance wise. as far as 1 pipe or 2, its about looks. now, the borla dual exit cat back exhaust is made with two pipes coming out the back, but if you notice, the pipes are "skinny" and on the single pipe, it is "fatter". if you dont mind having 2 skinny pipes sticking out the back, go with that. i belive they come with some nice looking chrome tips welded on them too. My brother-in-law has a 97 grand cherokee with the 5.2L v-8 and he put magnaflow single exit exhaust and its very loud. louder than some trucks with dual exhaust.

"looks will make them look, but performance will make stare with their jaw wide open"

ItalianBarista · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:19 am

I'm not sure I agree with that statement that the dual pipes on the borla are "skinny" they actually flare out of the end because of the tips that are welded on, otherwise they are 2.5" pipes all the way thru, just like the stock exhaust. The single pipe may have a larger tip, but the tubing is all the same diameter.

Take it easy ya'll,

Adam the Italian

auggy · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:28 am

Alright so I should be looking for an intake before doing any exhaust mods...

How difficult is it to install an intake if you have little to no experience?

( I mean I've built/fixed bikes before and built computers and various other things .. but never fooled around with a car )

tniverth · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:01 am

I put an AEM cold air intake on in about 30 minutes, the directions are very specific and easy to follow. You will also notice some improvement in performance and perhaps a slight increase in MPG.
Good luck.
Tom.

auggy · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:06 am

Alright I think I'll try that first then since it seems to be easiest to install and the most affordable

Thanks for the help

dmc23 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:47 am

no one makes an intake yet for the new libertys I work in an aftermarket store and have been calling everyone.....nothing yet

Spike6901 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:45 pm

nuff said, at least for the price

http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... de=PER_EXH

ItalianBarista · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 6:24 pm

auggy wrote:

Alright so I should be looking for an intake before doing any exhaust mods...

How difficult is it to install an intake if you have little to no experience?

( I mean I've built/fixed bikes before and built computers and various other things .. but never fooled around with a car )

The only problem with an aftermarket air intake is that if you go off-roading, you probably shouldn't have one since it lets more dust particles get in your engine and that is bad. I know that there is a type of "sleeve" cover to go over the cone when you go off-roading so not as much debris gets into your system. I think K&N makes it.

Take it easy ya'll,

Adam

DaGuru · **Posted:** Fri Sep 16, 2005 11:54 pm

If money is no object a good proformance shop can fab up a custom set of pipes for you. Headers and true duals will run ~2500 to have a good pro do it. One thing, it WILL be better than what you can buy and bolt on yourself. However, if your seriously interested in doing something like this, spend the extra money and get the works. Port & polish, blue print & balance. Losts more mula, but MUCH better HP and yes, economy too.

I agree that "dual pipes" from Borla and other companies is just for show. This is because your dealing with a collector that pipes both manifolds into a single pipe before it reaches your cat and muff... True dual exhaust included two high performance cats and two (somtimes) mufflers. One for each side of your engine. Without getting into the rocket science of it all, the trick is to have eaqual length pipes for each side of your engine. Thats key to better power, etc...

auggy · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:19 am

the problem with that is the fact that money is an object since im only 16 .. heh

DaGuru · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 1:54 pm

I know how you feel. Why do you think I don't have any mods yet... Its called 1K/month daycare (soon to double when my second son is born next week)

Ok, try this option on for size. Find yourself a privatly owned muffler shop. Reputable is best, most likley if an independent can stay in business against the chain stores they can probably do a good job. Since I havent researched the options for the KJ and it looks like there arn't many header options out there I'm not sure how much you can buy vs fab or have fabbed for you. So, if possible, buy a set of headers and have the rest done by a shop. Find an independend and get a quote to have them do true duals for you. You'll need to buy a second cat and muffler. If possible, there are some after market cats that are designed for true dual exhast and arn't very expensive, othersise you will probably want to get a quote for a factory cat, but I'd bet you could probably get two after market cats for the price of one OEM one.

The things is, many of these independent shops can do the work for less simple because they're willing to make less profit. Thats where most of my red-neck buddies go and get their pickup trucks setup duals and glass packs. The rest of them do it themselves. Not that I would support this concept, but independents are sometimes willing to bend the law when it comes to emissions... :wink:

One last option is to do it all yourself. Independent shops might be willing to bend and possibly weld the pipes for you or let you do some of the work yourself. If you can't weld, find someone who can, because crimping it all together will produce leaks and you won't be happy with the results.

Good luck!

One last thing. One thing I learned about Chrystler and their cats... Back when they were about to go belly up, they had to cust some hellatious deals with their suppliers. One such deal was with their cat builder. As a result, (at least on dodge and chrystler cars, not sure about jeep, now) the technology in their cats is from the 50s. These cats don't work well with modern fuel and engine types. So, in order to keep from burning the cats out prematurly the OEM computers are designed to run ritch. The extra unburned fuel is used to cool the cat down. Ultimatly this costs us consumers in power and economy. An aftermarket cat and computer can cure this. Thats one reason why most tunners lean out your fuel supply first. What most don't tell you about is that your cat will wear out sooner. Just thought I'd share that with everyone.

auggy · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:06 pm

That sounds like a serious project! If I was going to go through that much effort I would definately get some gnarly side exit pipes hot rod style that shoot flames :twisted:

That's interesting about the cat .. maybe next summer I'll use the profit from my summer job to replace it and get the computer reprogrammed

My plan as of right now is to:

Get a rusty's 2.5" spacer kit .. Moab ( rubicon ) wheels with goodyear mtr's and the rusty's KJ exhaust kit

That's the most affordable combo I have found as of now with everything I want.

Thanks for the imput though definately!

ItalianBarista · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:28 pm

darn, I thought I was the youngest one on here, oh well, I still have the immaturity award! haha

DaGuru · **Posted:** Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:24 pm

Hahaha, and the award goes too!!!

Hey Auggy, I agree, add some fuel dumps and have flames

just like Grease Lighning!

I'd like to do the same, but I think I'll get myproject rolling in stead.

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