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 Post subject: Did the iPOD movement kill the CD player off?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:19 am 
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From the Detroit news

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DETROIT -- The dash-mounted CD player could quickly go the way of 8-tracks and quadraphonic sound, a vice president from Siemens VDO said Thursday at the Ward's Auto Interiors Show in Detroit.

And it will be a welcome demise, he said, because it will free up valuable real estate on the dash for all the other cool gizmos drivers lug around these days, like the cell phone, personal digital assistant and music player.

Never-ending advances in digital music devices, the take-them-everywhere cell phones and finicky customers who expect to customize their vehicles with portable devices, will push CD players out of most vehicles as early as 2012, said Frank Homann, vice president of Siemens VDO's Interior Electronics Solutions group.

Many manufacturers already are putting new sound technologies in vehicles.

For the past two years, DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group has offered its U Connect system to allow people with Bluetooth phones to connect to a speaker phone in the car. It recently introduced the My Gig system that will burn CDs to a 20 Gig hard drive in the dash.

Ford Motor Co. will introduce its Sync system later this year. It connects a driver's phone to the vehicle, as well as allows an iPod or other music device to be controlled by the car's stereo. It will also play music saved on a flash drive by connecting to a USB port in the car.

Chris Dragon, director of marketing for audio company Harmon/Kardon, said he doesn't see carmakers opening their dashes to just any devices.

"(Carmakers) make a lot of money on those technology packages that include CD players and other things," Dragon said. "I don't see them opening up their electrical architecture to outside people any time soon."

Many of the changes in future interiors will start in the more nimble aftermarket arena, Dragon said. Harmon/Kardon sells a number of aftermarket devices that are popular with consumers, including the Guide and Play GPS 500 that can store music and movies, as well as GPS navigation.

Automakers could save between $20 and $40 a vehicle if they eliminated CD players, according to Homann.

They also could save money in other ways, such as consolidating some of the electronics behind the dashboard, he noted. But all of this will take time.

Most new models now come with an auxiliary input jack to allow motorists to plug and play their music devices.

Additionally, carmakers recognize the need to have more electrical sources in a vehicle so drivers can recharge their phones, iPods and laptops.

Even if CD players linger in dashboards of the future, many will simply gather dust.

"I bought a new car a few years ago and have never played a CD in it," Dragon said.

"Everything I have is on my iPod and that goes wherever I do."

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:20 am 
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I agree, soon CD's will be a thing of the past and you will be able to wirelessly download songs directly onto your vehicles hard drive.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:30 am 
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I hate online stores and their DRMs. I hate iPod. I would like to be able to download a song and listen to it anywhere I want, whenever I want. That's why I will continue buying CDs. Could they be a thing of the past soon, maybe.. I buy the CDs to support the artist, rip to Mp3 and put it in my Jeep in a Hard Drive which is connected to my Kenwood head unit. I prefer freedom and ease of use, and not rely on iPod.
I am also sick of these "commercial" news that refer to an MP3 PLayer as iPod. Either the author is DUMB he thinks all mp3 players are iPods, or they just prefer to use iPod and get $$ from steve jobs.. :evil:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:40 am 
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:evil:

Someone put that fire out! If your an artist and you expect to make money from CD's then your on the wrong track (no pun intended). Unfortunately this article is right, and the future of CD's will be a thing of the past. The music industry has been fighting the loosing battle of trying to put reigns on MP3's, P2P music sharing, free music, etc...

It's unfortunate to actually realize how much an artist looses when making a song or album. However, public demand is moving towards free file sharing networks and there is no way to convince the minds of the majority. Unless your Steve Jobs..... :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 9:57 am 
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Yes, it is not the artists who are making money on sales, but it is the recording studios.
The way it works, as you know, it all depends on the # of sales.
If the album sells 10,000 the first time, the recording studio makes a certain money and then they consider signing up the artist for another album.
They pay fix $$ to the artist, rest they take the risk (or get rich). That's why you see "nice price" albums at the stores, artist already made his/her money when they signed. If they sell 100,000 or 1M. they will ask for more money next time they sign, since they have a record. Just like the actors, they don't care what's the box office on the movie, they take their money and hope that it makes money at the theaters. So they can ask for more next time.

This is why you see some of the artists start up their own studios if they have some connections and experience, so that they can make money by manufacturing and distributing the CD.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:02 am 
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Seems like I read somewhere that with one of the music download services, you can pay like 30 cents extra and get a license free song..no DRM, it belongs to you just like you bought the CD.

I dont know how the artists/labels are going to stay in business, but they will find a way, higher concert fees, higher download fees, DRM that doesnt suck (yeah right). I will see if I can find that download service...

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:05 am 
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Jeger wrote:
Seems like I read somewhere that with one of the music download services, you can pay like 30 cents extra and get a license free song..no DRM, it belongs to you just like you bought the CD.

I dont know how the artists/labels are going to stay in business, but they will find a way, higher concert fees, higher download fees, DRM that doesnt suck (yeah right). I will see if I can find that download service...


Well, you can use an "unlimited listen to" store like Napster or Rhapsody, and use analog recording technique to record and store your songs (legally).
iTunes now offers DRM-Free (But they still embed your FULL NAME!) into the song, and manage to hide it from the hash calculators :evil: , but yes, it is DRM-Free, for $1.29 per song. :roll:

Amazon is now coming up with DRM-Free service with all independent studios, + EMI but open date is uncertain.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:37 pm 
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I agree with you hyedipin. I can't stand the consumer rush for iPods (or anything with "i" in front of it, for that matter). I will NEVER own one unless it is given to me free of charge. I MAY however buy an MP3 player someday.I simply despise the way Apple marketed the iPod and basically screwed over every consumer that was interested in buying one. The marketing was genius from a businesses standpoint, but deceitful and insulting to the consumer. I pride myself on being an educated consumer, so it really pisses me off when millions of people get ripped off, then stand by the iPod like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Ignorant consumerism in my opinion is what encourages companies to produce poor quality products at a premium price. People are too lazy to do any research so they buy whatever is available at whatever price the store is offering it. With no consideration for the fact that there might be a similar item out there for less and of much higher quality. Okay, I'm done ranting :evil:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:44 pm 
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SavageUrge wrote:
People are too lazy to do any research so they buy whatever is available at whatever price the store is offering it. With no consideration for the fact that there might be a similar item out there for less and of much higher quality.


Shhh.. Our economy depends on this.


That plus "look at my iPod, it's smaller than yours"..
They did real good with this and next stop is iPhone. I have been doing everything that is possible on an iPhone (As they market it) on my phone for 3+ years.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:06 pm 
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I will continue to buy aftermarket systems instead of dealer crap for the reasons mentioned in this thread. Infact, I wished they had a radio delete option on the KJ, with a refund for the radio. I would have choosen that and saved me the money. They should just run some good old fashioned wires to the speaker locations and the location where the head unit should go-- and leave me alone with all their proprietary DRM, DCX crap.

I will eventually upgrade the head unit to something with aux inputs, so I can use my Ogg Vorbis (DRM free format) player. Until then, the CD player will work just fine for me-- and I will continue to buy the good old CD's and rip them to Ogg files. I will also continue to do so on my windoze free, apple hype free, 64 bit computer, and I will do it using a free command line utility that was installed with my free operating system that does not get viruses-- because I am wierd like that, but at least that way **I** am in control of my system and not these companies.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:21 pm 
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Don't even get me started on that @$#% iPhone! :evil: They under-engineered that thing for the sole purpose of marketing it just like the iPod.

Apple: "Ooooh, look everybody! Now you can have a phone that matches your iPod, but does less than most regular cell phones, but it will only cost you $400 to have the latest gadget so you can be cool like everybody else"

Idiot Consumer: "Oh, wow! I have GOT to have that so everyone will think I am cool and distinguished to, even though I'll probably end up getting rid of it after I figure out my cell phone has more features and that the iPhone is a piece of crap"!

Apple (6 months from now): "Hey look everybody! Here is the NEW AND IMPROVED iPhone with more features you'll never use, but at least it's catching up to what most bargain basement cell phones do. Oh, and sorry to all of our other customers who bought the first generation - you'll have to spend another $400 if you still want to be cool like everybody else, while we reap the profits and make out like bandits"!

Idiot Consumer (6 months from now): "Yes, maaaaster. We will obeeey. We are your flock and you are our shepherd...Baaaahhh"! If you make it we will buy it becasue it's sooooo cool. What would we do without you Apple? You complete us".

I'm not trying to insult iPod owners. It just really pisses me off how Apple marketed them and how they appealed to younger people to spend a whole lot of money on something that was going obsolete in 6 months. Not to mention the explosion of "iPod compatible" products out there furthering this iPod addiction.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:01 pm 
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hyedipin wrote:
Yes, it is not the artists who are making money on sales, but it is the recording studios.
The way it works, as you know, it all depends on the # of sales.
If the album sells 10,000 the first time, the recording studio makes a certain money and then they consider signing up the artist for another album.
They pay fix $$ to the artist, rest they take the risk (or get rich). That's why you see "nice price" albums at the stores, artist already made his/her money when they signed. If they sell 100,000 or 1M. they will ask for more money next time they sign, since they have a record. Just like the actors, they don't care what's the box office on the movie, they take their money and hope that it makes money at the theaters. So they can ask for more next time.

This is why you see some of the artists start up their own studios if they have some connections and experience, so that they can make money by manufacturing and distributing the CD.


Dude you have no idea what you are talking about. I am in the music business and that is not really how it works. Yes an artist usally gets a advance on the record. That amount depends on the budget of the album. Lets say the the break even point of an album is 100,000 copies. So it would take 100,000 sales to pay the engineer(me), the producer, the 2nd engineer, the studio, the marketing dept., the sales dept., the mastering engineer, the duplicator, the distribution company, the song writers, and the advance for the artist. After all that is paid for then the artist, the label, and anyone who got points on the album will continue to get paid. We call that mail box money, because you don't always know it's coming. Anyway, if the album doesn't sell enough copies to cover all these cost then the artist do not make anymore money. At that time they must rely on touring to make their income. To put it simply, when you by an CD you are paying for more then just the artist and when you steal music, you are taking money from MY pocket.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 12:12 am 
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I was referring to the major bands on major recording studios.
Why is it the studios that are going after the so called stealers, and not the bands or artists themselves? When idiotic metallica deal went after the college kids for swapping their songs on napster, they did that just because they were the shareholders or owners of the studio. Why do you think they went down the toilet after that point?

If that album is not worth buying (in my opinion nobody should buy an album without listening to it in its entirety once first) I don't think your paycheck should depend on the number of sales.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 7:46 am 
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hyedipin wrote:
I was referring to the major bands on major recording studios.
Why is it the studios that are going after the so called stealers, and not the bands or artists themselves? When idiotic metallica deal went after the college kids for swapping their songs on napster, they did that just because they were the shareholders or owners of the studio. Why do you think they went down the toilet after that point?

If that album is not worth buying (in my opinion nobody should buy an album without listening to it in its entirety once first) I don't think your paycheck should depend on the number of sales.


But then again an artist has to walk back into the studio and make another album just to keep any money coming in. With high pressure it's not wonder albums are becoming crap with only 1-3 songs actually worth listening to.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 9:22 pm 
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It's all greed, I tell ya. :lol:

Forget that, the reason songs are getting crappier by the album, because everything different has already been done, and there are too many artists out there. It sometimes sounds like it is the same song you are listening to..

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:55 pm 
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I just can't soley trust music in electronic format and no hardcopy. It is so easy to have the HD go bad and you lose all of the music and you have to rebuy the stuff. At least with CD's, you can make a copy and keep the originals at home safe.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:24 pm 
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Yeah, I agree. But How about backing up the music you bought, it is as good as having it in DVD or CD. Also I think the stores should allow the customer to download it unlimited number of times, as long as they backed up their DRM key, just as if they moved to another computer or Mp3 player that supports it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 11:34 pm 
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my girlfriend can't seem to understand why i prefer to spend $15 on a cd in a store as opposed to downloading for $10 on itunes. i feel much safer having the hard copy than just relying on my computer to store it. most of the time i upload the new cd on my ipod and it sits on my rack in my bedroom collecting dust, but its just nice to know that if something does happen, i still have a backup.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:01 am 
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Stores do not last a lifetime. They come and go and you would be out of luck when it closes and you can no longer get lifetime downloads.

Backups will fail also. We are talking a lifetime. I have albums that I still listen to on the turntable. There is just something special about listening to your old music on record. For those of you that did not grow up in the era of albums and 45's, you wouldn't understand.

Tapes and 8-tracks do degrade and can get eaten by the player.

CD's definitely last a long time. Keep them in their case and they are good as gold years later.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 1:57 pm 
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Ipods suck the only reason i have one is because i got it as a gift for being a groomsman in my buddy's wedding. :lol: I only use it when i go to the gym, lately hasnt been much. :oops:

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