Height of arrogance? Wow, let's not fly off the handle here. You make it obvious that being an environmentalist gives you a great deal of pleasure. That's fine with me, but don't wield it like a club. We need people like you to balance out the ones who want to dump oil in my lawn. Did I ever say oil would last forever? Didn't think so. My beef is with how the mainstream media argues about human caused global warming - as if it's a proven fact and to disagree is blasphemy. I'm sorry, that's not how the scientific method works. To frame the argument that way is dangerous. Temperature swings are commonplace on the time scale of the Earth and I think some people are jumping to early conclusions based on correlation, not causation, on a very limited set of historical data, ice cores and tree rings notwithstanding.
Weather forecasters can't predict within 1 degree what will happen 5 DAYS from now in a specific locale. And I'm going to believe a 50 year forecast for the GLOBE? The system is simply too complex and the variables too numerous and poorly understood for our simulations to be believable to me.

What am I doing? Would it surprise you that I subscribe to Home Power magazine and am looking at implementing solar/wind power at my home? My company is one of the largest makers of wind power inverters, and I would love to work in that division, but alas, my degree is in mechanical engineering, not electrical. I'm interested in alternative energy because, as an engineer, I'm obsessed with efficiency, and elegant solutions. Drilling oil out of the ground and carting it halfway 'round the world is far from elegant, but it works for the time being. The market has to make major technological advances in energy storage, power transmission, and biomass conversion before that's outmoded. I watched Modern Marvels last night with great interest, esp the segment about Iceland's use of geothermal power. They are geologically fortunate to say the least, but that advantage will fade too, as dictated by plate tectonics - but now we're back to a time scale discussion.





Doubt it. It's not fuel in the intake after all. If anything I could see it causing more problems, because the quality of bio is not yet as consistent as petro diesel, and the engine wasn't designed to run on it.

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05CRD: GDE Hot ECU & TCM tunes, Provent, Cat filter, Facet lift pump, TransGo kit, Florida TC, Samcos, stainless brake lines, HDS thermostat, Renegade light bar,
Bilstein adjustables, Al's Gen 4.5 Arms, 235/85-16 Duratracs, DTT rear, Elocker front, EVIC+TPMS, Turbo timer, McNally pillar gauges, Weeks Stage II kit.

I agree with you here, but once again as I said, blaming the scientists for how poorly environmental reporting tends to be the popular thing these days, and it gets frustrating to see Al Gore ruin the reputation of the field when people are spending thier lives dedicated to this. My real point here is that just because the spokespeople suck does not mean its a load of bunk. That said, I do agree with you that dissention is the meat of the scientific method, however dissention is not defined by randomly taking potshots from a uninformed position, then declaring victory because someone chose not to respond to that uninformed position(not accusing you of this, btw).


Human biology is far more complex than atmospheric science, and to this day we can't tell you how many things work(especially in terms of hormones and mental processes). That does not mean that we cannot identify toxins, that we cannot predict human health based on environment, behaviour and genetics, that we cannot cure problems and discover what is incurable by current methods. A subject does not have to be understood 100% before predictions can be made and solutions presented. In fact, there are no 'closed fields' in science where all there is to know is known.

I agree that stupid movies like The Day After Tommorrow, and poor presentations like An Inconvenient Truth present the issue as though we know more than we do, but just because they do this does not mean that we know nothing, or that our knowledge is not greater than presented in areas that are more esoteric to the layman, but understandable in the scientific community. Keep this in mind: What is presented in the media in a given field is typically 3-10 years behind what is being done by the scientists at any given time, usually they don't hit the media until results are published. There is no major braking of info going on, no scientists attempting to quell reports as there typically would be if current lab research was starting to poke holes in the theory, if anything they scientists are getting more strident about it, which strongly indicates they think the problem is much more real than what is being presented today publicly.

BTW, your ice core comment actually demonstrates the putting forth of knowledge to imply we know more than we do problem, my significant other was quite suprised to learn a couple years ago when in Australia studying ice cores from Antartica that you can't actually determine CO2 and climate from an ice core, it simply leaves some indicators that can be used to corrolate with cores taken from the ocean floor. In other words, its not as simple as taking a core and measuring CO2 levels as is typically implied, its just a bit of complementary data that allows a scientist to rule out some possibilties, but does not tell them the story itself.

All that said, personally I feel that water shortages are our immediate threat, and that global warming is a factor in only that we should be reducing our output of atmospheric pollutants because that is a wise thing to do, not because I'm worried about rising sea levels.


With this I tend to agree, but everyone here thinks I'm crazy, so oh well.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

Well said!

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Biodiesel burns cleaner, producing less soot. Less nasties in the intake, so less issues with crud building up in the intake and sensors. I can't see building an emperical case against biodiesel making things worse. The engine most certainly WAS designed to run on it -- it came with B5 from the factory. Superior cetane, and diluted will not create any viscosity issues.

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

I've put on 50K with B100 in my F350 and it is the cleanest 01 Powerstroke I have seen - not in terms of sparkling paint or flawless interior but because the interior does not smell at all of diesel and the tailpipe and back end isn't black, the engine and sensors are spotless etc.. The thing runs flawlessly, starts every time, smoother and quieter than dino. And the fuel is grown and processed regionally.
Now that I know global warming is nothing but a scam produced by Al Gore and supported by thousands of uninformed scientists working in cahoots with the axis of evil, I feel better. However, I will still use BD as it is a superior fuel for my vehicle.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

So, this brings me back to my point. Has Biodiesel been the solution for some of the CRD problems? Surely you guys have taken some before and after data showing results from ULSD use vs. Biodiesel usage. Right?

_________________
2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

When I cleaned my MAP sensor at 18k miles, the only crud build up I had was oil from the CCV system. Looked a lot nicer than most I've seen posted here. I installed the SEGR at roughly 15k, but have been running either B20 or B99 almost exclusively since 5k miles (when I bought it). Hard evidence that bio is keeping my engine in better shape? No. But it certainly isn't hurting.

Further, I recall a piece of research posted a while back regarding lubricity and wear on diesel injectors, comparing everything from 2 stroke motor oil mixed with diesel to expensive fuel treatments. The best results? Biodiesel blend.

No issues whatsoever with the vehicle thus far. I'll be installing one TDIWagonguy's ccv filters when it arrives to take care of the oil vapors in the intake.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

Good answer! This really gets me excited at the idea of considering another CRD. If I did buy a CRD, it would be my third vehicle, therefore it wouldn’t be my daily driver, but something I would use for road trips, pulling a camper/small trailer, and that sort of thing. Tempting indeed. Maybe I can find a wrecked one (a project vehicle)! As if I actually have time for a project! Hmmmmm, I had better start buttering up the wife!


[img]http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/images/smilies/00000004[1].gif[/img]

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2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.

Here's the link to that study:

http://www.johnfjensen.com/Diesel_fuel_ ... e_test.pdf

If folks are nervous about biodiesel, consider a B20 blend. Also worth considering a $150 mod (Racor 2 micron fuel filter head) if the quality of bio in you area might be an issue. Better filtration, and no worries about air leaks at the fuel head (or burned out fuel heaters).

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

B20 is an excellent option. It's available at the pump, it tolerates quite cold temperatures without treatment, and it gives the lubricity and cetane benefits without the mileage drop associated with higher biodiesel blends. I've not heard of any issues with it in any factory diesel.

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

This is really the issue, there are no hard numbers. Even worse is that even if it works great in some engines, there is no hard data that it is a good idea for *this* engine. In fact, some of the components in our engines are known to have problems with BD, especially the injectors. Not every engine is the same, and some are friendlier to BD than others. Unfortunatly all you can get on a forum is anecdotal evidence.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

And that is precisely WHY we need more prevalent use of biodiesel. Once the manufacturers get the clue that people are going to use this fuel, they will do the work needed to ensure their product will deal with it favorably. The average commuter, or even the most dedicated biodiesel coop does not have the resources to adequately and completely test the fuel in each specific application. Anecdotal evidence is all we got.

_________________
'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---

The only biodiesel available in the Washington DC area is a station next to the Pentagon in Arlington. The only reason they sell it there is because of a DoD alternative fuels program. The have a small above the ground storage tank. They also have natural gas and some other alternative fuels. The only other sources of bio are at least 25 miles away.

I bought some B20 2 weeks ago. MPG did not improved, but the engine certainly seemed to run smoother. Would like to buy more but:

1. Biodiesel at the Pentagon Station costs 20 (3.80) more than regular diesel which is already 60 cents above regular gas at 3.10 per gallon

2. Only one biodiesel station in the whole DC area.

It would seem that if the government was really serious about biodiesel and other alternative fuels they would do more to promote availability at an reasonable price. That is certainly not happening where I live in Northern Va

_________________
VACRD
2006 CRD
AeroTurbine 2525 Muffler
FUMOTO, SAMCO Hoses
GDE Eco Tune, Euro Torque Con
New Fuel Filter Unit
2009 VW TDI

There goes Reflex again spouting *facts* with no basis on research or reality, Reflex, Who do you know who has had ANY problems with the injectors in their VM Motori from BioD? And please don't refer to the mysterious super secret government investigation to determine how long a VM motori 2.8L Turbodiesel will last on BD, which, unless it exists purely in someone's imagination, contradicts every peer reviewed, official, published study by the government. There absolutely IS hard data that it works better in our engines, just look at the PM emissions data from the highly accurate EPA emissions inspection stations in the areas where LOST members live comparing BD and DinoD. Every single person who has used BD in their CRD will attest that the engine runs smoother and quieter on it. This equates to less stress on all the moving parts in the engine. Higher lubricity ALWAYS translates to less wear on metal parts(especially injectors), and as has already been covered here does not dissolve away from BD.

To address dieselenthusiast's question. Which of the CRD's assorted problems could be attributed to the kind of fuel except possibly the EGR valve thing? Which some members before and after evidence shows to be somewhat alleviated by the use of BD. The better solution to the EGR problem however is to do the EHM or Provent and the ORM. Personally I no longer use the EHM on my jeep because I didn't like the vapor at stop lights. My map has had very little build up since I did the ORM and does not appear to be covered in soot but rather tar from the PCV. After comparing the personal opinions to the evidence posted already in this thread, you should be able to separate fact from fiction and make an extremely informed decision about is good to put into your fuel tank. Should you buy a CRD? My opinion is, absolutely!

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

The Government has addressed the cost of BD by eliminating or removing the road and excise tax in most areas as well as the $1.00 per gallon federal alternative fuel blenders tax credit to biodiesel producers. The reason that you are seeing higher prices at the pump is because the vendors can charge whatever they want within reason, and the public will pay the higher price because the want it, it is greener than DinoD and their vehicles run better on it. Don't blame the high price on the government but rather on the producers who are just as greedy as OPEC and in many cases are owned by the petroleum companies.
http://www.soygrowers.com/newsroom/rele ... 72905.html

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/b ... sel10.html

on the 18th bulk sunflower was $1.33 a gallon http://www.tradekey.com/selloffer_view/id/1572525.htm

A good article on it's future is here http://www.biodieselnow.com/forums/t/19669.aspx

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Not to be impolite, but have you looked in the direction of Pennsylvania Avenue recently? Did you HONESTLY think that when their is an oil rig parked in the front lawn, that the occupant or his masters from the Fossil Fuels industry would WANT more than a token gesture toward their eventual replacement?

I've made this prediction elsewhere, but I'll post it here, and we can all see how it plays out. I'm unfortunately pretty confident that it will happen as I state:

The Oil Price Index Service (IIRC the initials correctly) and the DoE inventory reports come out every week. For the first few weeks of the year, the predictions of pricing for the SUMMER went as follows:
DoE: Max price should be 3.00-3.25
OPIS: No no, it will be more like 3.25-3.35

2 weeks later, NOTHING HAPPENING in the world (no major news, oil fires, etc, inventories fine)
DoE: Max 3.25-3.50
OPIS: no no, 3.50-3.75

I honestly haven't seen any further long-term projections since then, but here is my prediction:

This is the last summer driving season that the oil companies are going to have control of the meter, without any fear of actual government oversight or any repercussions. They WILL run it north of $4, possibly up to $4.50 (California doesn't count) before the end of the summer, and without any obvious reasons why. We still haven't gotten to the second week of April yet, when there will be an "unscheduled" refinery event, and another one in May. These are unscheduled... Then how come they happen EVERY YEAR at the same time?

Yea... This is their last chance at the kitty, you can BET they are gonna make as much ungodly profit margin as possible before the White House and Congress changes again.

I used to buy from that station all the time. The B20 is very good and the only problem I ever had is that the pumps would pump extremely slow once in a great while.

They sell E85 and natural gas there as well, at least they used to.

I have used B5 or B20 in my CRD for the last 32K and have had no fuel related problems.

On another topic, fuel prices are influenced by supply and demand, just like everything else. When demand goes up and supply stays the same, prices go up. No magic or wild conspiracy theories here, just plain old boring basic economics.

This is getting out of hand here in Portland right now. This morning I noted one local retailer has marked their B99 biodiesel up to $4.09 a gallon! Somehow, I don't think the cost of the 1% of dino diesel has gone up enough to justify a 60 cent increase in the price of the fuel (it was $3.49 a couple weeks ago).

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited
Mopar engine, transmission, transfer case skids
245/70/16 Michelin Latitude X-Ice (winter)
235/75/16 Firestone Destination ATs (summer)
Thule roof rack, cargo box
V6 airbox mod
Flowmaster 50 2.5 inch muffler
Edge EZ module (set for fuel economy)
SEGR
TDIWagonGuy CCV filter
B99 (summer), B20 (winter)

nursecosmo - Bosch themselves won't warranty our injectors for more than B5 I believe. They have expressed their own doubts. You can decide its unfounded if you wish, but I'm not taking gambles with my investment, and IMO its irresponsible to not tell new users that their vehicle may have some risks.

UFO - The desire to gather more data justifies telling new forum users that there is no risk? Thats what it seems like your saying to me. I can't really endorse that approach, essentially your gambling with someone else's $18-30k machine based on your personal priorities. I'd prefer to flat out state that you personally have run it successfully but you are aware that there are concerns. Let them make an informed decision, if they choose to use it then, hey, welcome to the club, but if not at least you didn't 'trick' them into voiding warranty or shortening engine life if the problems do materialize.

_________________
2006 Jeep Liberty Sport CRD

However, I started this thread in hopes to gain more insight from people who are using biodiesel. I do appreciate the advice from both ends, after all, debating the issues helps problem solving. There appears to be no real downside to using biodiesel. As a matter of fact, there seems to be more positives with running Biodiesel than running #2 diesel. What I weigh as being positive might be different than what Reflex weighs as being positive. Due to this thread, and my independent research, Biodiesel would be my number one choice of fuel. Look at Dodge Cummins, they recently changed their B5 requirements down to B20. What does this tell me? It tells me that Biodiesel is a safe alternate to #2 diesel. If there was a national regulation on the quality of Biodiesel, then I would suspect that B100 could possibly be approved by the manufactures. If I buy a CRD, in which I plan to do, then I will run biodiesel every chance I get. My wife and I only buy organic foods, we like to support organic farming and quality foods. Likewise, I will buy biodiesel because I like to support alternative fuels and more quality fuel. I have no problem paying more for a better product. I’ve been doing it for years and have realized that better usually equates itself with investment. Investment = profit.

_________________
2015 Ram Ecodiesel/Big Horn/4x4/Quad Cab
2016 Arctic Fox 22G/Onboard 2500 LP Cummins Onan Generator/160 Watt Solar Panel

I took the road less traveled. Now I'm LOST.