FJ Cruiser vs. KJ

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Tue May 02, 2006 10:44 pm

Hey InCommando, I was just wanting to say that the % of octane has nothing to do with power. All octane controls is when the heptane and octane fires, not how much power you get. The more octane, the more compression it can handle.

spencevans · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 1:29 am

Kjoy wrote:

I think it's a myth about Toyota and reliability. Now, dont get me wrong I have heard stories about Toys lasting FOREVER, but if you take care of a car the way you should any car can do that. Plus, nowadays I think most car companies are up to par on reliability. Im 17 years old and drive the *&^% out of my Kj, its got 81K miles on it, plus ive smashed into countless snowbanks I never should have hit, taken it offroad in places it wasn't designed for.... wait a sec... yeah it was. :lol:

Point is, Toyota, overated, seriously.

Check this out:

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/products/products.htm

It's no myth, Toyotas are extremly reliable as long as they are properly maintained. I was the biggest Chevy fan when I was in high school but a friend reccomended a the FJ80 a few years back and it was the best car I ever owned. It drove like a 60k dollar suv on the freeway and it was like driving a Wrangler Rubicon offroad. With over 150k miles, it still drove better than a most new cars and 10 times better than my new KJ for a third the price. Unfortunately I rolled it. The fj80 land cruisers will be around long after most of the KJ's are in the grave yards. It's not uncommon to get 400-500k miles out of the FJ80 before they need an engine rebuild. I hope the new FJCruisers and KJ's go 500k miles on average but I know that's a big stretch but you never know with a diesel.

As far as being upto par, my parents 2002 Tahoe (Only driven by old people) drives like a brick, the rear doors sqeak and don't shut right. It also has numerous electrical issues, and the list goes on and on. This is a vehicle that's never been wrecked.

American auto maker are still way behind. They need to follow in the steps of Toyota and do lean item manufacturing. LIM just results in a beter product. Another company that makes amazingly reliable vehicles is Mitsubishi but buyer beware because some models are real lemons. The older Monteros and pickups are Good, Mirage Bad.

AZScout · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 1:39 am

Check this out.

http://www.revtek.com/

FJ in Moab
http://www.revtek.com/toyota_pics.asp

Nice.

After parking my CRD next to one and checking it out I came away thinking that the front is still too ugly, the inside is utilitarian looking (not a bad thing) and the muffler goes under! the driveshaft and is the lowest thing on it. The brochure stated that it took great pride in flattening the pipe as it went under the shaft. Seriously, unless there is a skid that covers all of this, the pipe will have to be re-routed. My friend likes it though and will probably get one. Just waiting for the markup to be over. In it's defense, I really like the room behind the rear seats, the rubberized floor, the rear locker, the waterproof seats and ability to fit 33's. It will wheel well I assume. Anyway, I got up, turned around, saw my KJ, smiled and was perfectly content as I drove away.

ARB does have a front bumper for it as well, and a there is a specifically tuned 3" coilover lift for it. The revtek are just pucks.

Hope this helps.

spoonplugger1 · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 2:01 am

Toyota is good at hiding problems the rigs have and fixing them during service calls. A buddy of mine said they used to tell a customer a small part was wrong and they had to have it for a day or two till it came in and what they really did was pull the head and fix the valves that they knew were going to go.
He also said he never listened to more people that he knew had problems with their rigs as he worked on them, but they always said the rig was trouble free when they talked to him.

WV(0)IIIIIII(0) · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 8:56 am

I have not had the chance to look at this thing up close but I like it. I have no lengthy reason why but I think it is a cool SUV and I am considering the purchase of one. Of course it will not be tomorrow but probably next year since my KJ will be paid off. I think it will do well on and off the trail and the nay-sayers such as Hummer and Wrangler owners will be impressed with it the same as they are when they get us on the trail.

SethX9 · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 9:32 am

For all the people armchair quarterbacking Toyota's build quality vs. the average US Big Three: how about some stats instead of all the anecdotes. Everyone knows someone who loves/hates their American/Japanese vehicle but those stories are really useless for understanding the larger picture. My personal feeling is that a 20 year old Honda or Toyota is more likely to be in better condition than the average 20 year old Big Three buggy but again, that's just a feeling.

Bottom line is, no one buying a brand new FJ or KJ is buying a rock-crawling toy. They're buying a daily driver in which they can get out every so often and have some fun in the dirt/snow/rocks. That said, a vehicle that sells for nearly $10k more than mine and that demands to be fed premium fuel when prices are moving towards the $4/gallon mark...well, I really don't care how off-road capable it is.

Spike6901 · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 12:16 pm

Fuel economy is defiantly a big issue now days. It is getting to the point that you need a little eco car to drive to work daily.

Also, think about (in the past) Jeep vs Toyota build strength. Jeep puts those dinky Dana's under the wrangler and if you wish to add a locker and some larger than 31" tires, you had better upgrade to 44's. Even the older Wranglers and CJ's were built with dinky parts like the AMC 20 and a horrible, unsync'd x-fer case (I speak from experience). Consider that the Cruisers had axles almost equilivent to Dana 60's, running 35's is no problem and the x-fer case shifts like butta'.

This may mean nothing now, but in the past, Toyota's trucks and cruisers were a far, far cry better than American versions as far as strength and ease of repair. I mean, with my FJ40 or with my '84 PU, all I needed to do practically anything was a 8,10,12,14 and 22mm socket/wrench and usually not even a manul becasue everything is so logical. On any of my Jeeps, I had better have a full set of English and Metric tools to even try. Again, this may be a mute point for the FJC.

I would really like to see a comparision between the two in two categories by people who actually wheel: stock to stock, lifted KJ w/265's vs. stock FJC with 33's.

Check out these pics.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=90098

Jeepjeepster · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 1:20 pm

^ Hahaha, thats so true about needing full set of English and Metric tools to work on anything. Ill never understand why they do that.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 1:52 pm

Actually the closest you'll get to good statistics is the Consumer Reports annual auto issue - and if you read the fine print - each year they tell you what the average number of defects per 100 vehicles it takes to get each color code - Toyota does better on average - however both American and foreign manufacturers are dramatically better today than they were 10 years go.
That said - I traded in a 92 FJ80 on my CRD and I have no regrets - the FJ80 was solid, underpowered and averaged 11-12 mpg, if I kept it I was looking at an engine swap (any Chevy engine will fit)
to the original subject of the thread - I haven't looked at the FJ cruiser and won't until my CRD wears out.... (now if Toyota brought back the FJ40 - with diesel.. that would get my attention )

ccattie · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 4:33 pm

When was the last time you got stuck behind an old lady in her 1970 Toyota anything? Prolly never but not a day goes by that I am not stuck behind some old dude in his car that he probably bought in highschool. I'm not saying that in the mid 80s and 90s that domestics weren't pretty bad but now a days its pretty dang good.
-c

[quote="SethX9"]For all the people armchair quarterbacking Toyota's build quality vs. the average US Big Three: how about some stats instead of all the anecdotes. Everyone knows someone who loves/hates their American/Japanese vehicle but those stories are really useless for understanding the larger picture. My personal feeling is that a 20 year old Honda or Toyota is more likely to be in better condition than the average 20 year old Big Three buggy but again, that's just a feeling.
quote]

spencevans · **Posted:** Wed May 03, 2006 4:50 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

Actually the closest you'll get to good statistics is the Consumer Reports annual auto issue - and if you read the fine print - each year they tell you what the average number of defects per 100 vehicles it takes to get each color code - Toyota does better on average - however both American and foreign manufacturers are dramatically better today than they were 10 years go.
That said - I traded in a 92 FJ80 on my CRD and I have no regrets - the FJ80 was solid, underpowered and averaged 11-12 mpg, if I kept it I was looking at an engine swap (any Chevy engine will fit)
to the original subject of the thread - I haven't looked at the FJ cruiser and won't until my CRD wears out.... (now if Toyota brought back the FJ40 - with diesel.. that would get my attention )

I agree the 92 fj80 with 4.0L were underpowered but 4.5L was a major improvement. The 92's were a far cry from what 96-97s fj80 were. They upgraded the engine, transmission, t-case, axles, suspension, and interior and also had the option of lockers. The same body, but definately not the same vehicle. Warning do not buy the 91-92 fj80's because they are way underpowered and got poopy gas milage. If I remember right I think they only had 155hp 220ft lbs torque. The 93-97 Fj80 had 212hp and 275ft lbs of torque and typically got between 14 -18 mpg. Thanks for pointing out that not all FJ80's are created equal.

http://www.sleeoffroad.com/newbie/newbie100.htm

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu May 04, 2006 12:53 pm

Actually since Toyota bodies and suspensions are solid - the older ones are great for engine swaps
I was thinking about the 6.5 Turbo Diesel (common in Australia)
http://cruisers.shoumatoffmedia.com/cummins.html

and FJ40's have always worked better with a 350 Chevy
http://www.ih8mud.com/cruisertech.php

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Thu May 04, 2006 1:40 pm

So, what do our friends across the oceans think? Would love to hear your opinions.

NorthwoodsJeeper · **Posted:** Thu May 04, 2006 1:57 pm

Has anyone actually sat in the FJ? I did, and you can't see out of it! There is no visibility for off-roading or even driving on the highway. I think it is actually unsafe. The Hummers also have this same problem. Are they doing it just for looks? I don't understand why they are designed with the tiny windows.

The interior was also pretty tacky - plastic trying to look like rugged metal. I would be much more interested in an Xterra than the FJ if I wanted something that was more capable for off-roading in stock form.

LoganSix · **Posted:** Thu May 04, 2006 3:58 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

Actually the closest you'll get to good statistics is the Consumer Reports annual auto issue

Consumer Reports!! Hah!!

How can it be objective if it only gets data from the people who read the magazine and return their results? How can the stats mean anything when a problem can be from "My engine fell out." to "There was a scratch on the inside of my glovebox." Do you know that they did a percieved reliability poll based on how owners of non-American cars rated American cars. Can you see the flaw in that?

Sorry, I had to take a couple of statistics course in college and the majority of reports and polls you see in the media are flawed based on how the data was gathered alone, not to mention the type of questions used.

Quality rates of most manufacturers are pretty much on par with each other right now, which is all that matters. I'll give Toyota props for having such a broad range of vehicles to choose from. But, for the most part, I find them bland. Bit, I have to agree with the "what's on the road now" statement. I see a lot more American beaters than I do Asian ones.

SethX9 · **Posted:** Thu May 04, 2006 7:24 pm

Quote:

How can it be objective if it only gets data from the people who read the magazine and return their results?

That is not how Consumer Reports realizes their findings...at all! In fact, CR is the farthest thing from that a reader/buyer could hope for. CR actually buys (yes, BUYS) products (including cars) and runs independent tests and reports the findings of those tests to the consumer. They are not reporting what consumers say. CR also takes zero advertising dollars so they are that much less likely to have data that are suspect.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu May 04, 2006 9:31 pm

I really wasn't intending to start a Consumer Reports discussion - just to point out an easily available source of fairly independant data - if you have a more objective source I'd be interested in seeing it.

Tokyojoe · **Posted:** Fri May 05, 2006 4:45 pm

Okay........now back to our regularly scheduled program.

FJ's

InCommando · **Posted:** Fri May 05, 2006 7:44 pm

Spike6901 wrote:

Fuel economy is defiantly a big issue now days. It is getting to the point that you need a little eco car to drive to work daily.

Also, think about (in the past) Jeep vs Toyota build strength. Jeep puts those dinky Dana's under the wrangler and if you wish to add a locker and some larger than 31" tires, you had better upgrade to 44's. Even the older Wranglers and CJ's were built with dinky parts like the AMC 20 and a horrible, unsync'd x-fer case (I speak from experience). Consider that the Cruisers had axles almost equilivent to Dana 60's, running 35's is no problem and the x-fer case shifts like butta'.

This may mean nothing now, but in the past, Toyota's trucks and cruisers were a far, far cry better than American versions as far as strength and ease of repair. I mean, with my FJ40 or with my '84 PU, all I needed to do practically anything was a 8,10,12,14 and 22mm socket/wrench and usually not even a manul becasue everything is so logical. On any of my Jeeps, I had better have a full set of English and Metric tools to even try. Again, this may be a mute point for the FJC.

I would really like to see a comparision between the two in two categories by people who actually wheel: stock to stock, lifted KJ w/265's vs. stock FJC with 33's.

Check out these pics.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=90098

What was the ring gear size, axle diameter & retention system, and pinion size of those D60'ish Toy axles? Did they come under the CJ-like L/C's, or the later, larger versions?

I got to admit I was thinking of the p.up's and the 4runner on the axle comment. The 8" Toy axle has a great reputation that I don't buy. Add some horsepower to those rigs and......hmmmm.... Toy's running swapped-in Dana & GM axles? Yep. Although it IS kinda hard to defend the D35, I would ask you to keep one word in mind when rating what you consider dinky: birfields.

Higher compression is a simple, proven way to improve power as it also allows timing changes... BUT... it requires higher octane fuel to avoid pre-detonation. I am betting that Toyota bumped the compression of its V6 to achieve more power, and that is why it specifies premium fuel. I'll also bet that the computer on the FJ will dial back the timing to prevent knocking on regular fuel. I believe that the ECM changes required while running regular fuel will make a noticable change in the power of the FJ. The premium octane requirement has been accepted in luxury cars, but I don't know if it will be accepted in more main stream vehicles.

boxhead · **Joined:** Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:14 pm **Posts:** 186

NorthwoodsJeeper wrote:

Has anyone actually sat in the FJ? I did, and you can't see out of it! There is no visibility for off-roading or even driving on the highway. I think it is actually unsafe. The Hummers also have this same problem. Are they doing it just for looks? I don't understand why they are designed with the tiny windows.

The interior was also pretty tacky - plastic trying to look like rugged metal. I would be much more interested in an Xterra than the FJ if I wanted something that was more capable for off-roading in stock form.

This was the thing I noticed right off, very poor visibility. Toyota has made some great off road vehicles over the years, and I'm not saying this one isn't, but I felt like I was in my daughter's Mustang. (better be looking out the front 'cause you can't see anything else!)

But, I stll like my Libby CRD. It's my third, and favorite Libby. At the end of the day, to each his own right?

FJ Cruiser vs. KJ

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